Original Sin/Ancestral Sin - Page 9

Steve Epley · #81 06-12-2008, 10:13 AM

A thought:
A SINNER is a SINNER because they Sin!!!!!!!!!!

He that committeth sin is of the devil. 1Jn.3:8

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth the law; sin is a transgression of the law. 1Jn.3:3

How can an infant who cannot chose or commit be a sinner?

oracle · #82 06-12-2008, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

A child is not a sinner because a child does not have the knowledge of good and evil and cannot be accountable for its sins.

Seeing that you speak of "the knowledge of good and evil" we are dealing with the conscience. I believe EVERYONE is born with a conscience, even infants, in their case it is a weak conscience. I do not believe ANYONE is born without a conscience, even infants.

If someone sins ignorantly, are they not still accountable for sin though they sin ignorantly? God's answer is yes!

Quote:

(Leviticus 5:17) And IF A SOUL SIN, and commit any of these things which are forbidden to be done by the commandments of the LORD; THOUGH HE WIST IT NOT, YET IS HE GUILTY, AND SHALL BEAR HIS INIQUITY.

Steve Epley · #83 06-12-2008, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle

Seeing that you speak of "the knowledge of good and evil" we are dealing with the conscience. I believe EVERYONE is born with a conscience, even infants, in their case it is a weak conscience. I do not believe ANYONE is born without a conscience, even infants.

If someone sins ignorantly, are they not still accountable for sin though they sin ignorantly? God's answer is yes!

Pray tell me WHAT SINS A INFANT commits ignorantly. Crying for a bottle?
Pooping in their diaper? Cooing for their mother?
Good grief!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mizpeh · #84 06-12-2008, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle

Seeing that you speak of "the knowledge of good and evil" we are dealing with the conscience. I believe EVERYONE is born with a conscience, even infants, in their case it is a weak conscience. I do not believe ANYONE is born without a conscience, even infants.

If someone sins ignorantly, are they not still accountable for sin though they sin ignorantly? God's answer is yes!

I don't believe anyone is born without a conscience either. But neither are they born without a mind. Yet our minds grow in knowledge and understanding. We aren't born with all knowledge.

Is the knowledge of good and evil the conscience? And if it is when does the conscience wake up to sin or when do we begin to know the difference between right and wrong and when are we accountable for the choices we make? Surely not as a infant.

oracle · #85 06-12-2008, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

A thought:
A SINNER is a SINNER because they Sin!!!!!!!!!!

He that committeth sin is of the devil. 1Jn.3:8

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth the law; sin is a transgression of the law. 1Jn.3:3

How can an infant who cannot chose or commit be a sinner?

Equally, a righteous person is someone that does righteousness.

(1 John 3:7) Little children, let no man deceive you: HE THAT DOES RIGHTEOUSNESS is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Infants do not do righteousness neither, therefore, by your same argument they are also not righteous because they have not done righteousness.

Steve Epley · #86 06-12-2008, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I don't believe anyone is born without a conscience either. But neither are they born without a mind. Yet our minds grow in knowledge and understanding.

Is the knowledge of good and evil the conscience? And if it is when does the conscience wake up to sin or when do we begin to know the difference between right and wrong? Surely not as a infant.

They have infants sinning and adults are given free passes on every issue?

Steve Epley · #87 06-12-2008, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle

Equally, a righteous person is someone that does righteousness.

(1 John 3:7) Little children, let no man deceive you: HE THAT DOES RIGHTEOUSNESS is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Infants do not do righteousness neither, therefore, by your same argument they are also not righteous because they have not done righteousness.

Innocence is NOT righteousness. These babies DO neither! Good grief they are babies.

oracle · #88 06-12-2008, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Pray tell me WHAT SINS A INFANT commits ignorantly. Crying for a bottle?
Pooping in their diaper? Cooing for their mother?
Good grief!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I never said that an infant committed sins.

Steve Epley · #89 06-12-2008, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle

Seeing that you speak of "the knowledge of good and evil" we are dealing with the conscience. I believe EVERYONE is born with a conscience, even infants, in their case it is a weak conscience. I do not believe ANYONE is born without a conscience, even infants.

If someone sins ignorantly, are they not still accountable for sin though they sin ignorantly? God's answer is yes!

YOU used this scripture and applied it to infants did you not?

oracle · #90 06-12-2008, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Is the knowledge of good and evil the conscience?

Yes. Adam was an infant though he was a man. Adam had a conscience as an infant, even though he ignorant of his nakedness. He knew that he should not have eaten off the tree of mixed fruit. Praise God.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

And if it is when does the conscience wake up to sin or when do we begin to know the difference between right and wrong and when are we accountable for the choices we make? Surely not as a infant.

I believe we are accountable as soon as we sin (ignorant or not) beginning from birth.