Autism or possession

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I think because some have seen spiritual abuse or experienced failure they have thrown the baby out with the bath water: I felt to randomly go pray for my aunt years ago because she was in her final stages of cancer. One night after church full of expectation I stopped by unannounced and asked to pray for her. She allowed me to pray and I shortly left. She died soon later. It took the wind out of my sails. Why did I feel so strongly led to pray for her if nothing was going to happen? I still don’t know the answer to that today, but I haven’t stopped believing God. I feel like a failure sometimes, but I know that God is able.

Are you talking to yourself?

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

A missionary went to the Marshall Islands to preach the word. When he got there he was seeing miraculous miracles, people being lifted from the hospital beds, cancers falling off, the dead raised to life again, demons casted out etc.. Then a certain organization started sending out "care packages" that contained Tylenol, Ibuprofen, and you know what brother? The miracles stopped! The missionary stopped seeing the dead raised to life again, he stopped seeing the demons casted out.

You want to see miracles like they see it in third world countries, start trusting in God like some pentecostals trust in their doctors.

Perhaps America will become a third world country and then you'll have no choice but to either to believe in a healing or meet your maker.

You and the missionary are confusing correlation with causation, a common error.

Why did Jesus begin His ministry with many miraculous signs and wonders, but ended His ministry with mere words and teaching?

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

How can a child have autism??? David said "In SIN did my mother conceive me." When you have a child with autism or a behavioral disorder look at the parents.

Are you sure you have the correct understanding of Psalm 51:5?

Because you don't.

You accuse autistic children of having a spirit, being oppressed or possessed, then blame the parents because of their sinfulness, and yet, you forget the teachings of the Prophets, particularly Ezekiel, in chapter 18, that proves God Himself doesn't hold children accountable for the sinfulness of their parents.

Furthermore, unless you are saying you believe King David had autism, his use of poetic hyperbole in Psalm 51 in no way comments on why children are born with autism.

He did not write, that "in sin, all children everywhere are conceived, that especially sinful parents conceive autistic children who are oppressed or possessed since birth by a spirit".

And finally, what about non-autistics? Are they "conceived in sin" like King David said he was? Do they get a pass if they come out all right with no autism to show? Or are they just as likely to be oppressed or possessed by a spirit from birth?

Just had an evangelist from Florida this weekend, and God used him in such a mighty way. We were talking Saturday night about the spirit realm, and he started telling me about going to a church in Florida and a women there was possessed. He said there were preachers there that if I called their names everyone would know them. And this women lifted herself off the floor, and he said these big named preachers ran out of the room, they were sacred. Brother Good Samaritan, the more conservative preachers are, the less likely they believe in the spirit realm. Understanding how the spiritual works isn't learned through the Septuagint, or some dictionary somewhere, its learned by reading the word and asking God to open your eyes to see what others cannot.

Wouldn't name names? So now, no corroborating evidence. Just claims made to what? Laugh at and deride anonymous ministers of the Gospel in another state?

If I were you, I would call the evangelist up and demand the names so you can call those pastors and get their side of the story.

Proverbs 18:17 (ESV),

The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Esaias

According to the Bible, demonisation seems to manifest in one of several specific ways:

1. The stereotypical foaming at the mouth psychosis (man in the tombs).

2. Divination (pythoness soothsayer in Acts).

3. Apparently religiously correct behaviour (man in the synagogue - it seems he was completely undercover).

4. Saul's case which is complex and may not indicate demonisation but rather being afflicted or harassed by a change of temperament or mood.

5. Long standing infirmity or physical impairment that presents no different symptoms from a similar purely physical infirmity or impairment (woman in Luke 13, deaf mute in Mark 9, etc).

6. Idolatry (heathen gods are demons and so pagan religion is literal demon worship, a form of the lowest stupidity).

In no case in Scripture is there ANY treatment protocol EXCEPT rebuking and casting the evil spirit out. No "taking an inventory of unrepented sins", no probing into the victim's "troubled childhood", no months-long "progress through multiple deliverance sessions", or anything remotely resembling what is usually presented nowadays. Today's methods honestly sound more like charismaniac pop psychology rather than apostolic power. Or standard witchdoctor exorcism practices, to be honest.

Meanwhile, so many people going on about the demonic yet they have no problem celebrating the rites of ancient demon worship as long as it's done "for Jesus", nor do they seem aware or even care that false religion which masquerades as God's religion but which contradicts the Word of God is literally "of the devil" according to Jesus.

This is the proper way to address Biblical demonization. With chapter and verse. Thank you, Esaias, for getting us on track with the Word.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

You and the missionary are confusing correlation with causation, a common error.

Really?

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Why did Jesus begin His ministry with many miraculous signs and wonders, but ended His ministry with mere words and teaching?

John 21:25
25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

Jesus raising from the dead, vanishing and reappearing, ascending into heaven etc.. is not mere words and teaching Brother.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Same thing that causes consciousness and personality: neurons.

Just like that.

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Now, can you tell me, what causes demonization, according to the Holy Scriptures, chapter and verse?

An open door in sin.

Ephesians 4:27 (open door)
Neither give place to the devil.

Acts 5:3 (lying)
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

How did he fill their heart to lie?

Matthew 18:34 (unforgiveness)
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.

Who are the tormentors?

ISamuel 19:9 (Rebellion)
9 And the evil spirit from the LORD was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.

Sent from God. Would you agree a tormenting spirit from God was sent to Saul because of the rebellion he chose rather than obedience? Saul was judged with a tormenting spirit.

Matthew 12:43-45
43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The only rest a demon has is by dwelling (possessing) in an individual.

How does a demon know to go and get seven other spirits? Where did Jesus get this information?

Do YOU believe this still happens today?

John 10:10
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

The devil and his minions are constantly on the move to steal, kill, and destroy. Even in the trial of Job satan had the authority to attack his body. A spirit caused boils, yet because he never charged God foolishly he never opened himself to be completely taken, oppressed yes, yet never possessed.

Ephesians 6:11
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Is this verse saying that the only way we can stand against the deceit of the devil is to have the armor of God on? How does sinners contend then?

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Brother, you cannot seem to make up your mind.

First, you wonder in the opening post if autism might in many cases be the result of demonization. When asked why you wonder if that is so, you avoid the question and give only a tangentially related reply. When challenged on your tangentially related reply, you answer again, but the answer you give doesn't have anything to do with autism, but the normative sinful behaviors of humans everywhere. So again, you were challenged on what that has to do with anything regarding autism. You then attempted to be more specific and mentioned predatory sexual behavior. It was then shown to you that predatory sexual behavior is not an indication of autism, but rather is an indication of common to all people works of the flesh.

And now, you are here admitting in the above post, in the emboldened text, that predatory sexual behavior is not an indication of autism, thus defeating yourself and nullifying the very thing that made you first wonder if demonization is the cause of many cases of autism.

Every individual with autism has different symptoms. They call it a spectrum disorder. Hyper sexuality in autistic people have things like masterbating in public and intentionally pooping their pants that seems to be common. You are correct again that most people deal with different levels of sexual drive, but anyone that can’t make it through a day at work without having to stop to masterbate has problems.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Are you talking to yourself?

Have I offended you on another post? If I have I am sorry

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Finally, I appreciate that you are trying to be conciliatory with you words and express a sentiment that indicates you are not trying to be derogatory, at least intentionally.

But I would have you to know that calling people with disabilities or disorders "handicap" is in itself highly derogatory, since the word is associated with the poor beggar on the street, cap in hand, hoping for a hand-out, because he's too unable to do anything meaningful with his life but wait on the charity of others.

As such, in 1990, the Americans with Disabilities Act officially ended the use of the term.

I assure you that is not what I think of when I say handicap. If that is what is associated with handicap I will try to remember that

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Are you sure you have the correct understanding of Psalm 51:5?

Because you don't.

You accuse autistic children of having a spirit, being oppressed or possessed, then blame the parents because of their sinfulness, and yet, you forget the teachings of the Prophets, particularly Ezekiel, in chapter 18, that proves God Himself doesn't hold children accountable for the sinfulness of their parents.

Did I say God holds the children accountable for their parents sins? No, I did not. Does that mean that he children will NOT be AFFECTED by the sin of their parents? Let's flip to the natural side of things, is a child affected by the parents use of drugs and alcohol during pregnancy? I believe you would agree drugs and alcohol affect a baby during the pregnancy. Yet, YOU don't believe sinful actions won't affect a baby.

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Furthermore, unless you are saying you believe King David had autism, his use of poetic hyperbole in Psalm 51 in no way comments on why children are born with autism.

LOL. Did I say David had Autism? No!

I used that verse because David said in sin.