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  #71  
Old 12-26-2020, 10:48 AM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Merry Christmas to one and all !!

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post

I was going to being this up. When I first got into church I read a book from Elder Burr, and he was big into Christmas. I’m not just talking about having family and friends over, I’m talking about trees, garland, mistletoe, wreaths etc.. basically just short of Santa Clause. Anyway, He wrote about the HYPOCRISY from his dear friends on the right that told him he is involving himself in pagan traditions by his celebration of the Christmas holiday. And being the man that he was, he wrote them back, if he was a pagan because of his Christmas celebration, then they are as well, for there participation of SUN god worship. Because they and 95% of church’s hold their church services on SUNday, which goes back to pagan worship of the SUN god. He rebuked his friends and mocked them, offering a new name for them to use, come join us for SUN day God School!

He went on: When can we have service that will not be MIXED with paganism;
Monday- Nope thats the moon gods day
Tuesday- Sorry! Mars the fearsome god of war claims it
Wednesday- Again sorry, That day belongs to woden.
Thursday- You superhero fans will love this. This has been dedicated to Thor
Friday- This is “Frig’s-Day” she is a pagan goddess
Saturday- the Sabbatarians arent going to like this either, this is saturns day.



As your in SUNday god school tomorrow you really need to make sure who you are worshipping?

I knew a man, wouldn’t celebrate any holiday, and he was real about it, it wasnt just Christmas. It was birthdays (oh yes!!! Say goodbye) Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, Easter, you get the point. Yet, after a while he stopped going to church, why? All the church’s he knew where wrong and he couldn’t mixed himself with those “pagans”. So, to this day, its just him and his wife, his daughter and her husband have service in their home. They think there better than any fellowship they could be having with other believers. I call that PRIDE!

It’s pride and hypocrisy to say those that celebrate any holiday are wrong and endangering themselves to the flames of the pit, yet they’ll hoot and holler how they’re not afraid to take up arms and defend there land! They cringe at the thought of Christmas, yet they without hesitation state I will shoot another human being or in support of taking up arms against the government..... you’re going to tell me thats perfectly fine.

Where do we draw the line?
Birthdays, wasnt celebrated by the early church. This practice goes back to the Egyptians. Greeks took it from there and then it fell in to the lap of romans which made it the way we understand it. Go study it out.

How far to the right can one go without going overboard?

How far to the left can one go without going overboard?

I was brought up in the church, there is a ditch on both side of the road. Stay down the center.
Narcolepsy1968 so you are in the ditch because you refuse to give up the "protestant" Xmas? Good thing you weren't raised LDS. You would be getting sentimental over December 23rd. Xmas is important to you because of the Presbyterians, and the Lutherans. The Puritans outlawed Xmas in New England in 17th century A.D. Yet, there were way more Xmas advocaters entering into the colonies. The Baptists in Connecticut brought the holiday with them. Protestant since being protestors only removed certain masses from the liturgy. Since most of our ancestors come from western Europe the December 25th is the day. If you were raised in the Eastern half of the Roman Empire the day would be the 7th of January. Days of the weeks, names of the months, aren't items we baptized into our religion. Just like things which are on the Internet. They are on here but we don't participate in them. NO television, but Internet is cool? Both have different functions. Yet, since television has been buried by the internet everyone. Probably, can't say for sure, but even Brother Burr would of been using a smartphone? You also brought up XMAS vacation? You have to stay home, therefore it is a time to reflect on Christ? What about the American Muslim, he is staying at home on December 25th, his place of business Whole Foods Is closed. Yet, he is going fishing, and the Catholic mass isn't even a thought in his mind. Also Chinese restaurant, and the people who work and own them. Not even missing a beat. Eastern Orthodox, all staying home on December 25th and hotter than hornets because all the United States is a bunch of Pope worshippers.

But the there are plenty of days December 10-18th, December 23rd, 24th 25th to January the 6th. Yet, your Christianity is all about your culture, where you grew up. Hence the reason why we don't have many issues with people who grew up in other place around the world. They aren't attached to Dean Martin or Bocephus singing about all his rowdy friends are decorating the Xmas tree tonight. They discard the yule as Roman Catholic just as other Anabaptists in history.
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  #72  
Old 12-26-2020, 10:51 AM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Merry Christmas to one and all !!

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Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
That is what you are claiming.
No, that is a fact
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  #73  
Old 12-26-2020, 11:06 AM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Merry Christmas to one and all !!

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Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
Funny how Rome banned Pagan practices and made Christianity the only religion. That is a mighty strange thing for a country to do if it was promoting paganism. The birth of Christ is a Biblical event. It brought hope of salvation. Many feel that event took place in December. Thus, we celebrate it then. Who gives a rat's rear-end what pagans do in December? I am sure pagan holidays occurred around the time Christ was resurrected as well. But do you hear any Apostolics saying we should downplay Christ's resurrection because of a possible association with paganism? Wait...err.. huh? No way! It can't be!! There ARE Apostolics who do exactly that!! Pathetic!! I noticed in the UPC there was scant mention of the resurrection on "Easter" Sunday. What a weak, pathetic salvation some people have.
Is this all about you? Many feel that event took place in December? Bro, Eastern Orthodoxy takes issue with that. But you wouldn't know that. So, why are we really having this discussion? Because you want to get sentimental over Xmas music and past memories? Are we having a discussion to eggnog or not to eggnog? Or are we talking about holidays?

Bro, we aren't enemies, let's keep that in mind. If you want a hair pulling contest that can be arranged. But we celebrate the resurrection of Jesus in our lives, not at a Sunrise service, getting goosebumps. This country no more feels Christ on Easter, or Christmas, or Three Kings Day, then the man in the moon. Roman Empire adopted Christianity because all the different groups around the empire were taking over paganism. Constantine and his visions are debatable, and always will be. But you aren't even making sense with your posts. It really seems like its about you. You want to drink eggnog, and listen to Xmas music while smelling pine needles? Have at it. You already stated that God doesn't care what you do. Or should I say doesn't mind. Well, there you have it. But remember this, keep in mind that line of thinking and logic just gets into every other aspect of your belief system.
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  #74  
Old 12-26-2020, 11:28 AM
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Re: Merry Christmas to one and all !!

I usually don’t mention that I’m anti Xmas. I have never forced an anti holiday sentiment down anyone’s gullet.

I did repost a status on FB recently.
Quote:

Taken from a recent conversation.
“I did celebrate Christmas, when I was backslid.”


I have a Pic of a Christmas tree posted. I was asked if it’s my tree. I said no, I’ve posted it every year for about 10 years. It was then suggested that I should put up a tree. I responded with, “No idols in my apartment.”

(Only on my Facebook page )

Look, this has been my own experience. While never being militant anti Christmas- I’d mention it in passing. Then comes the diatribe spewing from the mouths of the pagan Pentecostals and the generic Christians about how they have a million reasons to justify their paganism that they prettied up by pasting the name of Jesus in a few places.

There’s a nativity scene, a baby Jesus mentioned in some songs. But, come on. All that gets plastered over by the prettily painted pagan elements.
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  #75  
Old 12-26-2020, 11:32 AM
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Re: Merry Christmas to one and all !!

Quote:

It’s pride and hypocrisy to say those that celebrate any holiday are wrong and endangering themselves to the flames of the pit, yet they’ll hoot and holler how they’re not afraid to take up arms and defend there land! They cringe at the thought of Christmas, yet they without hesitation state I will shoot another human being or in support of taking up arms against the government..... you’re going to tell me thats perfectly fine.
First, stop conflating issues. Second, red herring ever where.

Where did any anti Xmas poster post about taking up arms?

It’s the one guy on your side of the Xmas debate that wants to have his version of the Boston Tea Party at a Starbucks inside of a Target.
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  #76  
Old 12-26-2020, 11:39 AM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Merry Christmas to one and all !!

Quote:
Originally Posted by diakonos View Post
I usually don’t mention that I’m anti Xmas. I have never forced an anti holiday sentiment down anyone’s gullet.

I did repost a status on FB recently.



I have a Pic of a Christmas tree posted. I was asked if it’s my tree. I said no, I’ve posted it every year for about 10 years. It was then suggested that I should put up a tree. I responded with, “No idols in my apartment.”

(Only on my Facebook page )

Look, this has been my own experience. While never being militant anti Christmas- I’d mention it in passing. Then comes the diatribe spewing from the mouths of the pagan Pentecostals and the generic Christians about how they have a million reasons to justify their paganism that they prettied up by pasting the name of Jesus in a few places.

There’s a nativity scene, a baby Jesus mentioned in some songs. But, come on. All that gets plastered over by the prettily painted pagan elements.
I was over a friends house and he had a nativity scene. Well, there were all these children from his church over his house. One little boy was running with the ceramic infant from the nativity scene lifted high aloft in his hand. He kept making airplane sounds, as he dive bombed the other children. My friend's wife lost it. She snatched the boy up from the back of his collar. She wrenched the ceramic infant from the frightened boy's hand. She screamed, "THIS IS THE BABY JESUS!!!" The bewildered young lad, waited until she was done with her rebuke, and reply to her, "why is his arms held out like wings and he has a gold propeller on his head" Needless to say I burst out laughing with a healthy, HO HO HO UH OH!!!
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  #77  
Old 12-26-2020, 11:40 AM
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Re: Merry Christmas to one and all !!

Quote:
Originally Posted by diakonos View Post
First, stop conflating issues. Second, red herring ever where.

Where did any anti Xmas poster post about taking up arms?

It’s the one guy on your side of the Xmas debate that wants to have his version of the Boston Tea Party at a Starbucks inside of a Target.
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  #78  
Old 12-26-2020, 12:52 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: Merry Christmas to one and all !!

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Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
I am not agreeing the way Esaias puts it and how it relates things with the Sabbath keeping, but I agree he is right in some parts.

The Israelites could celebrate the deliverance from Egypt every day of their life, and probably should, in remembrance. However, there was one single day that they had to do something special about it. That's called a feast. And because the feast was related to the covenant between the Lord and them, it is called a covenant feast.

Covenant feasts are act of worship to the Lord, and they have to be acceptable to him. The Lord picked the day, not them. The Lord commanded them to do it, they didn't innovate picking a day. Do you remember the sin of Jeroboam? Or do you remember the strange fire sin of the son of Aaron? You don't innovate with these things. You don't add or remove from it.

The Bible also talks about feast not directly related to the covenant of God, for example, the feast of Purim. Those are feasts of national (or community) significance. Thanksgiving feasts. They are not covenant feasts. Those are your initiative. Nothing wrong with celebrating them. You can include here things like thanksgiving day, anniversaries, etc...


What is Christmas? As the Israelites with the deliverance from Egypt, you could mediate on the coming of the Lord in flesh every day of your life, but in one day you are making it something special. That's called a feast. Since the topic is in relation with the covenant of the Lord with us, the feast pretends to be a covenant feast. This is the problem: it is an innovation, it is the sin of Jeroboam, a strange fire. It is not an acceptable worship to the Lord.

Not only that, but people decorate their houses in the name of the Christmas unto the Lord. The decoration is also an act of worship. Funny thing is that it is exactly what pagans do with their gods: Jeremiah 10:3-4 (NKJV) 3 For the customs of the peoples are futile; For one cuts a tree from the forest, The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. 4 They decorate it with silver and gold; They fasten it with nails and hammers So that it will not topple.
As Deut says, don't do to your God what they do with their gods. Picking the day to feast is not only wrong worship, but also the decorating is wrong worship.

You worship God in Spirit and Truth, and by presenting your body as a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. You ought to decorate your soul with good works, not your house unto the Lord. We make our house nice and we decorate it to make ourselves comfortable, and make guests welcome and comfortable as well. We do it for ourselves as humans that we are, with moderation, but we shouldn't do it as an act of worship to God, to celebrate an invented covenant feast.

I don't think that most people who decorate their homes at Christmas really are thinking about the Lor. In fact, there are plenty of unsaved folks that probably never give Christ a thought this time a year. To them, it is a non-religious tradition, like eggnog and Claxton's Fruitcake.

Furthermore, feast days for Christians are not found in the New testament at all. At the same time, a "feast" to meditate on Christ's birth, death, burial, or resurrection is not prohibited. Thus, to say it is an abomination to do so is illogical, and frankly, is silly.
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  #79  
Old 12-26-2020, 12:53 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: Merry Christmas to one and all !!

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Is this all about you? Many feel that event took place in December? Bro, Eastern Orthodoxy takes issue with that. But you wouldn't know that. So, why are we really having this discussion? Because you want to get sentimental over Xmas music and past memories? Are we having a discussion to eggnog or not to eggnog? Or are we talking about holidays?

Bro, we aren't enemies, let's keep that in mind. If you want a hair pulling contest that can be arranged. But we celebrate the resurrection of Jesus in our lives, not at a Sunrise service, getting goosebumps. This country no more feels Christ on Easter, or Christmas, or Three Kings Day, then the man in the moon. Roman Empire adopted Christianity because all the different groups around the empire were taking over paganism. Constantine and his visions are debatable, and always will be. But you aren't even making sense with your posts. It really seems like its about you. You want to drink eggnog, and listen to Xmas music while smelling pine needles? Have at it. You already stated that God doesn't care what you do. Or should I say doesn't mind. Well, there you have it. But remember this, keep in mind that line of thinking and logic just gets into every other aspect of your belief system.
Anyway, Merry Christmas.
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Old 12-26-2020, 01:00 PM
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Nicodemus1968 Nicodemus1968 is offline
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Re: Merry Christmas to one and all !!

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Narcolepsy1968 so you are in the ditch because you refuse to give up the "protestant" Xmas?
I’m sorry to disappoint you, however I’m not in the ditch. Hence the reason why I’m having this discussion. I’m calling for a balance. I think thats funny you believe I celebrate Christmas in the way of Protestants. Go back and read my posts, I’m against Christmas trees, lights, mistletoes, Yule tide logs, wreaths etc. I am for making the day one to be with friends and family. Because of the time of year, I teach the church the paganism side of Christmas, and I also teach that its fine to celebrate the birth of Christ, not with trees, or lights yet with worship and fellowship, and gifts. I refuse to be in the camp where you throw the baby out with the bath water. I was in church like that for years.

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Good thing you weren't raised LDS. You would be getting sentimental over December 23rd.
I’m glad I’m not LDS, there celebrating of Christmas is the last thing they need to worry about. They should start with prayers for the dead, baptism for the dead, the witchcraft they have fed for many years, the perversion, the confusion. My town is very heavily Mormon populated. I’m glad I wasnt raised LDS

Quote:
Xmas is important to you because of the Presbyterians, and the Lutherans. The Puritans outlawed Xmas in New England in 17th century A.D. Yet, there were way more Xmas advocaters entering into the colonies. The Baptists in Connecticut brought the holiday with them. Protestant since being protestors only removed certain masses from the liturgy. Since most of our ancestors come from western Europe the December 25th is the day. If you were raised in the Eastern half of the Roman Empire the day would be the 7th of January.
Christmas is not important to me. I can give how I celebrate to the Lord and not pick it up again. Because I post about Silent Night, by Dean Martin, doesn’t mean I’m some “Christmas everything Christian”, far from it.

I understand concerning the day, I completely agree the chance of Jesus being born on December 25, is pretty much zero.

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Days of the weeks, names of the months, aren't items we baptized into our religion. Just like things which are on the Internet. They are on here but we don't participate in them. NO television, but Internet is cool? Both have different functions. Yet, since television has been buried by the internet everyone. Probably, can't say for sure, but even Brother Burr would of been using a smartphone?
This was the Elders whole point about pointing out that if he was pagan for celebrating Christmas, then his scoffers were as well. Many of us including me, go back centuries and say, “this is when it began, therefore the roots are pagan, and if you are apart of such and such a thing you’ll be tied to paganism.” Ok, thats fine, whats good for the goose is good for the gander. Then we need to go back and look at everything we do and are apart of and make sure it does not have the smallest of ties to paganism. Whoever does that let me know when your finished and what you would be allowed to do. I brought up the days of the week, where did the names come from, as Esaias pointed out concerning our SUNday services and change to the sabbath, oh wait Saturday was originally dedicated to Saturn, a pagan god. Again were do you draw the line?

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
You also brought up XMAS vacation?
Not sure about this?

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
You have to stay home, therefore it is a time to reflect on Christ? What about the American Muslim, he is staying at home on December 25th, his place of business Whole Foods Is closed. Yet, he is going fishing, and the Catholic mass isn't even a thought in his mind. Also Chinese restaurant, and the people who work and own them. Not even missing a beat. Eastern Orthodox, all staying home on December 25th and hotter than hornets because all the United States is a bunch of Pope worshippers.

But the there are plenty of days December 10-18th, December 23rd, 24th 25th to January the 6th. Yet, your Christianity is all about your culture, where you grew up. Hence the reason why we don't have many issues with people who grew up in other place around the world. They aren't attached to Dean Martin or Bocephus singing about all his rowdy friends are decorating the Xmas tree tonight. They discard the yule as Roman Catholic just as other Anabaptists in history.
Matthew 23:24 KJVS
[24] Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.


All I’m saying is we need a balance, and if your or anyone doesn’t believe that, ok, still love you.

My Christian walk started in a church that celebrated Christmas not with trees, lights, etc just fellowship with the church family, maybe a gift or two, nothing spectacular. Then from there it went to EXTREMISM, December 25 is of the devil, and if you celebrate then your lost going to hell. Yet, he would celebrate Easter SUNday and he just changed the name to Resurrection SUNday. And I’m ok with that, what I’m not in agreement is, saying one is wrong and pagan, yet then you turn around and say the other is ok.

Like you brought up the TV and Internet debate. Great debate, much needed debate! A preacher can rail against TV, and ill back him 110%, yet if he is watching videos on the internet, whats the difference? The smartphone just became the old fashioned square box that was placed in the living room, that had all the furniture positioned in a way to watch the box at any moment. Now, the phone is WORSE, you can bring it with you anywhere you go, to bed, bathroom etc...

All I’m saying is we need balance.
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Last edited by Nicodemus1968; 12-26-2020 at 01:03 PM.
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