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  #191  
Old 02-07-2021, 04:53 PM
Originalist Originalist is online now
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by james34 View Post
The sole definition of (porneo)is adultery?
Then why did Moses have to allow it, if it already existed?
I did not say that. Read it again.
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  #192  
Old 02-07-2021, 04:58 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by james34 View Post
!!!Hardly from silence!!!
Jesus said, Moses allowed a writ of divorcement.

Why do you from silence, assume Moses "allowed" what was already in existence?
If the "allowance" of a writ of divorcement had to be given, then it stands to reason that another way must have been in place from the beginning. The context makes this obvious. Do you care to comment on what that way might have been or what it was not?
The idea that because Moses gave an instruction it therefore means that thing did not exist previously is erroneous. Moses forbad bestiality. Was this some new innovation? Prior to Moses bestiality was okay?

Obviously not.

Therefore it necessarily follows that just because Moses issued legislation on a topic it does NOT mean said legislation was totally unheard of before Moses.
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  #193  
Old 02-07-2021, 05:49 PM
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
The idea that because Moses gave an instruction it therefore means that thing did not exist previously is erroneous. Moses forbad bestiality. Was this some new innovation? Prior to Moses bestiality was okay?

Obviously not.

Therefore it necessarily follows that just because Moses issued legislation on a topic it does NOT mean said legislation was totally unheard of before Moses.
Amen.
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  #194  
Old 02-07-2021, 07:27 PM
james34 james34 is offline
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
You are so lost. Christ was including things as adultery that might not necessarily constitute adultery as a capital offense under the Law. Though they might not get a woman stone, they are still grounds for divorce and remarriage according to Christ.
not really though!!!
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  #195  
Old 02-07-2021, 07:32 PM
james34 james34 is offline
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
The idea that because Moses gave an instruction it therefore means that thing did not exist previously is erroneous. Moses forbad bestiality. Was this some new innovation? Prior to Moses bestiality was okay?

Obviously not.

Therefore it necessarily follows that just because Moses issued legislation on a topic it does NOT mean said legislation was totally unheard of before Moses.

Nice, but you purposely omit that Jesus addressed putting away. He said from the beginning it was not so. So mi guess those were just empty words?
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  #196  
Old 02-07-2021, 07:45 PM
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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not really though!!!
Yes, really. That is why he used the word pornea.
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  #197  
Old 02-07-2021, 08:43 PM
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by james34 View Post
not really though!!!
so adultery may not be actual adultery and fornication may be adultery , but maybe not.

The ways of an adulterous woman are moveable that thou canst not know them.
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  #198  
Old 02-08-2021, 12:15 AM
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by james34 View Post
Nice, but you purposely omit that Jesus addressed putting away. He said from the beginning it was not so. So mi guess those were just empty words?
I'm thinking you did not understand my point.

Prior to Moses, people got married. And people put away their wives. And people got married unlawfully (forbidden unions).

Moses stated that if a man was to put away his wife, he had to give her a writ of divorce, legal paperwork stating she was no longer married. He allowed them to put away their wives because of the hardness of their hearts. But in the beginning it was not "in this manner". In the beginning God intended a man to have his wife and to keep her permanently. But people have hard hearts. So a mechanism was instituted to protect the woman. That mechanism was divorce (not merely putting away, but putting away with a bill of divorce).

The Pharisees asked about a man putting away his wife "for any reason" whatsoever. Which was not what Moses instituted by the way, that was a later rabbinic invention.

It is clear Jesus is stating the original pattern of Adam and Eve is the original intention for marriage. Which tells a man he should NOT put away his wife for just any old reason he can dream up.

It is also clear that Jesus affirmed that putting away IS NOT SUFFICIENT except in the case of fornication. Which was true under Moses' law as well. A man who married a woman that was simply put away was committing adultery with her.

This is what I pointed out way back in the beginning - there is a difference between "put away" and "divorce", and the terms Jesus used were the Greek legal terms that distinguished between the two acts. And going by that it means Jesus affirmed that putting away results in adultery because there is no bill of divorce (except in cases of fornication which are either "prohibited unions" like incest etc OR if fraud is involved and the woman claiming to be a virgin turns out not to be, in which cases putting away DID NOT REQUIRE A BILL OF DIVORCE). I have yet to see anyone on this thread really tackle that part of the subject.
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Last edited by Esaias; 02-08-2021 at 12:18 AM.
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  #199  
Old 02-08-2021, 12:25 AM
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

Pre-Moses: Abraham put away Hagar. Sarah had demanded it, and God allowed it. And of Abraham it was said by God:

Genesis 26:5 KJV
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

And again:

Genesis 18:19 KJV
For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the Lord, to do justice and judgment; that the Lord may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
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  #200  
Old 02-08-2021, 12:52 AM
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

Would being put away vs being divorced be similar to being legally separated today, which has different legal obligations than marriage while not allowing remarriage?

Being divorced would be based on there being an injured party, and possibly a blameless party.

Last edited by Amanah; 02-08-2021 at 01:01 AM.
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