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  #201  
Old 02-08-2021, 01:55 AM
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
Would being put away vs being divorced be similar to being legally separated today, which has different legal obligations than marriage while not allowing remarriage?

Being divorced would be based on there being an injured party, and possibly a blameless party.
To "put away" means a man sends his wife out of the home and he tells her "you're on your own". She cannot remarry lawfully because she has no paperwork showing her marriage was ended. To "divorce" means to give a bill or writing stating the divorce. A woman who had been married, and then sought to remarry, would need to prove she didn't just wander out of her house to go play in somebody else's sandbox, as it were.

Modern separation is kind of similar, means a married couple are still married but just not living together. Modern divorce is generally "no fault" meaning nobody has to prove an injury or blame.

All of this can be avoided, usually, by "marrying right" in the first place. Unfortunately, things happen and people don't always do the right thing.
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  #202  
Old 02-08-2021, 08:40 AM
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by james34 View Post
so adultery may not be actual adultery and fornication may be adultery , but maybe not.

The ways of an adulterous woman are moveable that thou canst not know them.
Who is making such a claim?
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  #203  
Old 02-08-2021, 08:44 AM
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
I'm thinking you did not understand my point.

Prior to Moses, people got married. And people put away their wives. And people got married unlawfully (forbidden unions).

Moses stated that if a man was to put away his wife, he had to give her a writ of divorce, legal paperwork stating she was no longer married. He allowed them to put away their wives because of the hardness of their hearts. But in the beginning it was not "in this manner". In the beginning God intended a man to have his wife and to keep her permanently. But people have hard hearts. So a mechanism was instituted to protect the woman. That mechanism was divorce (not merely putting away, but putting away with a bill of divorce).

The Pharisees asked about a man putting away his wife "for any reason" whatsoever. Which was not what Moses instituted by the way, that was a later rabbinic invention.

It is clear Jesus is stating the original pattern of Adam and Eve is the original intention for marriage. Which tells a man he should NOT put away his wife for just any old reason he can dream up.

It is also clear that Jesus affirmed that putting away IS NOT SUFFICIENT except in the case of fornication. Which was true under Moses' law as well. A man who married a woman that was simply put away was committing adultery with her.

This is what I pointed out way back in the beginning - there is a difference between "put away" and "divorce", and the terms Jesus used were the Greek legal terms that distinguished between the two acts. And going by that it means Jesus affirmed that putting away results in adultery because there is no bill of divorce (except in cases of fornication which are either "prohibited unions" like incest etc OR if fraud is involved and the woman claiming to be a virgin turns out not to be, in which cases putting away DID NOT REQUIRE A BILL OF DIVORCE). I have yet to see anyone on this thread really tackle that part of the subject.

You are 100% historically accurate here. Well articulated. But James will not answer you point for point.
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  #204  
Old 02-08-2021, 03:24 PM
james34 james34 is offline
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Pre-Moses: Abraham put away Hagar. Sarah had demanded it, and God allowed it. And of Abraham it was said by God:

Genesis 26:5 KJV
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

And again:

Genesis 18:19 KJV
For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the Lord, to do justice and judgment; that the Lord may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
So the handmaiden of Sarah is counted the same as a wife. They are both wives, lawfully?
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  #205  
Old 02-08-2021, 03:29 PM
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
To "put away" means a man sends his wife out of the home and he tells her "you're on your own". She cannot remarry lawfully because she has no paperwork showing her marriage was ended. To "divorce" means to give a bill or writing stating the divorce. A woman who had been married, and then sought to remarry, would need to prove she didn't just wander out of her house to go play in somebody else's sandbox, as it were.

Modern separation is kind of similar, means a married couple are still married but just not living together. Modern divorce is generally "no fault" meaning nobody has to prove an injury or blame.

All of this can be avoided, usually, by "marrying right" in the first place. Unfortunately, things happen and people don't always do the right thing.
The answer I see was when Jesus said what God hath joined together let not man put asunder. This is the part that embraces the will of God. If the marriage was a lawful marriage , and the unfaithfulness occurs after the union , then they are under the law of marriage until death do they part.
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  #206  
Old 02-08-2021, 04:16 PM
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

So God broke his own law when He put away Israel and divorced Judah? (Jeremiah 3)

Last edited by Amanah; 02-08-2021 at 04:39 PM.
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  #207  
Old 02-08-2021, 06:09 PM
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by james34 View Post
So the handmaiden of Sarah is counted the same as a wife. They are both wives, lawfully?
Genesis 16:3 KJV
And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.
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  #208  
Old 02-08-2021, 06:22 PM
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Genesis 16:3 KJV
And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.

BBAAHHAAHAA!!!!
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  #209  
Old 02-08-2021, 06:23 PM
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by james34 View Post
The answer I see was when Jesus said what God hath joined together let not man put asunder. This is the part that embraces the will of God. If the marriage was a lawful marriage , and the unfaithfulness occurs after the union , then they are under the law of marriage until death do they part.
Unfaithfulness in marriage incurred the death penalty under the law of God, not divorce. The offending party was executed, thus the non offending party was freed from the marriage.

In cultures where adultery is not punished by execution, Christians and Jews have pretty much allowed for divorce under the thought that the offending party is guilty of a capital crime and would be dead IF God's law were being enforced. The divorce in that case is simply a stopgap that arises from the lack of proper consequences for adultery. The offending party is reckoned as good as dead as far as the marriage is concerned. The fact they aren't literally dead is merely a fault of society.

Let not man put asunder? But in certain cases God puts asunder. Just as God joins a man and wife together but WITH their participation, the same is true of separation as well. Just because two people "get married" doesn't mean God joined them together. So just because two people get divorced it does not necessarily mean they were put asunder by man, they may very well have been put asunder by God. To determine if something is "done by God" when it is an action performed by people, one has to determine if the action is in conformity to the law of God.

Not all "marriages" conform to the standard of God's law. Not all "divorces" violate the standard of God's law.

Which is why divorces originally required a COURT to judge and execute. I believe even Biblically if a man divorced his wife it had to be able to pass muster in a court, as she or her family could contest the divorce.
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Last edited by Esaias; 02-08-2021 at 06:25 PM.
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  #210  
Old 02-08-2021, 06:24 PM
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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So God broke his own law when He put away Israel and divorced Judah? (Jeremiah 3)
Not at all.
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