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  #51  
Old 01-22-2011, 12:49 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Have we confused tongues/int. with prophecy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by missourimary View Post
Very interesting. Even more so, that I've very rarely heard T&I to praise or exalt God, to proclaim His mighty deeds... or to edify, exhort, or comfort the church. Most of what I've heard has been along the lines of:
"Hear ye the word of the Lord! I the Lord am coming soon. You know the deeds of your heart. Repent, and get ready!"
or "Thus saith the Lord. My prophet has spoken tonight. Why do you resist? Why is your heart still hardened? I long for you, my people, but you would not."
In other words, messages of condemnation and judgment to the church, not comfort or edification, much less praise.
Most of what I've heard was ...building up of faith or encouraging the body to reach out to lost souls or believing on Him for their needs.

BTW "edification" does not translate into "Joel Osteen feel good sound bytes"...

Edification means to build, the word actually means architecture. The church of Jesus is a building and it's being built. If that means a person or members of a congregation need a warning, so be it

However not all tongues were strictly meant for the church as is evidenced by Acts 2,

I have been in services where repentance and converting to unbelievers was preached and at the end there was an T&I that gave the same sort of warning you just posted...the implication was for the unconverted or uncommitted (backsliders)
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.

Last edited by Praxeas; 01-22-2011 at 12:58 PM.
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  #52  
Old 01-22-2011, 12:51 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Have we confused tongues/int. with prophecy?

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Originally Posted by Justin View Post
Wasn't there a T&I confirming the doctrine of the trinity at a oneness church, or something like this? Does anyone have audio?
I never heard of it.

I have been in an evangelistic service that was preaching Acts 2:38 and the T&I confirmed it
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #53  
Old 01-22-2011, 12:57 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Have we confused tongues/int. with prophecy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAII View Post
Why is it God speaks in King James English in these T & I sessions also?
Because God is not speaking, a human is for God. If someone from the south gives an interpretation and uses a southern twang does that mean God has a southern twang? I think it just depends on the person.

But honestly I don't know that Ive heard anyone give an interpretation in Victorian english.

I think the closest Ive heard is the opening words "Thus saith the Lord", but you all realize that each time the prophet in the OT said "This saith the LORD"..that was the prophet speaking not God.

In other words the prophet spoke of HIS own intellect to announce that what was to follow was not the prophet's own idea but God was giving him what to say to everyone else.
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #54  
Old 01-22-2011, 12:58 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Have we confused tongues/int. with prophecy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAII View Post
I'd also bet to voucher that in many circles that if a T & I session was translated as a prayer to God it would be rejected as authentic
And there is the difference I suppose

The only time we see in the bible when tongues were revealed as the glorious works of God or praises to God was when they were translated or understood by the hearers, not when they were interpreted by someone with that gift
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #55  
Old 01-22-2011, 03:15 PM
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missourimary missourimary is offline
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Re: Have we confused tongues/int. with prophecy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Most of what I've heard was ...building up of faith or encouraging the body to reach out to lost souls or believing on Him for their needs.

BTW "edification" does not translate into "Joel Osteen feel good sound bytes"...

Edification means to build, the word actually means architecture. The church of Jesus is a building and it's being built. If that means a person or members of a congregation need a warning, so be it

However not all tongues were strictly meant for the church as is evidenced by Acts 2,

I have been in services where repentance and converting to unbelievers was preached and at the end there was an T&I that gave the same sort of warning you just posted...the implication was for the unconverted or uncommitted (backsliders)
Edification does mean to build up, Prax. Edifying should be encouraging people to win the lost or encouraging them to keep the faith. Edification is NOT telling people they'll be raped or burn forever if they don't change. That's a warning, and it may be a rebuke. But it is definitely NOT building up. And if the warning is for no certain thing and people just feel like they must be "bad" but don't know why, it's condemnation, not rebuke. Edification isn't "Joel Olsteen sound bytes" but it also isn't yelling at people and telling them God's rejecting them if they aren't bawling their eyes out.

From the other thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
1Co 14:3 [B]But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouragement, and consolation. ...
Both prophesy and interpreted tongues are for the purpose of building up the body, they are words of encouragement, strengthening and consolation to people
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What we make of the Bible will never be as great a thing as what the Bible will - if we let it - make of us.~Rich Mullins
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.~Galileo Galilei

Last edited by missourimary; 01-22-2011 at 03:22 PM.
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  #56  
Old 01-22-2011, 03:32 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Have we confused tongues/int. with prophecy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by missourimary View Post
Edification does mean to build up, Prax. Edifying should be encouraging people to win the lost or encouraging them to keep the faith. Edification is NOT telling people they'll be raped or burn forever if they don't change. That's a warning, and it may be a rebuke. But it is definitely NOT building up. And if the warning is for no certain thing and people just feel like they must be "bad" but don't know why, it's condemnation, not rebuke. Edification isn't "Joel Olsteen sound bytes" but it also isn't yelling at people and telling them God's rejecting them if they aren't bawling their eyes out.

Edification is whatever builds up the church or church members. If that means to encourage their faith, then that. If that means correcting someone that is going astray, then that.

BTW where did rape and burn forever come into it? Ive never heard an interpretation speaking of rape or burning.

IF someone is going astray needs to be corrected or warned how is that not building them up?

The Lord says
Rev 3:19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.

74.15 οἰκοδομέωb; ἐποικοδομέωb; οἰκοδομήc, ῆς f: to increase the potential of someone or something, with focus upon the process involved—‘to strengthen, to make more able, to build up.’

Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Vol. 1: Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament : Based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition.) (675). New York: United Bible societies.

Quote:
On another note, isn't it odd that tongues is a sign for unbelievers, but T&I is almost a standard at campmeetings and conferences?
Paul said tongues are a sign to unbelievers. He did not say interpretation was

I don't understand the part about T&I being almost standard at campmeetings and conferences...to begin with I rarely have heard them at campmeetings and conferences. I mostly hear them at home church.

Second, why not when Paul said to interpret so the rest of the church will be edified also?

Of that verse one commentary says
Tongues for unbelievers (14:22–25). The intent of these verses is widely debated. If we paraphrase, “Unbelievers see tongues as a sign, but believers are not to,” the confusion is resolved.
This also clears up Paul’s instruction. Even though unbelievers may see tongues as a sign, they need to hear the Gospel in ordinary speech to be convicted of sin and acknowledge God’s presence with His own.


Richards, L. O. (1991). The Bible readers companion (electronic ed.) (770). Wheaton: Victor Books.

Not sure I agree however Paul did explicitly state

1Co 14:23 So if the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and unbelievers or uninformed people enter, will they not say that you have lost your minds?

The fact remains even if tongues are a sign TO unbelievers..it's just a sign.

Interpretation serves to edify the body but as Acts shows God can use tongues to get a message across to unbelievers as well
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.

Last edited by Praxeas; 01-22-2011 at 06:31 PM.
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  #57  
Old 01-22-2011, 03:34 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Have we confused tongues/int. with prophecy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by missourimary View Post
but it also isn't yelling at people and telling them God's rejecting them if they aren't bawling their eyes out.
where are you getting THIS from? Ive never heard once an interpretation that was God yelling AT people and telling them God rejects them if they aren't bawling their eyes out. Are you exaggerating something or did you really hear such a thing?
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #58  
Old 01-22-2011, 03:42 PM
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missourimary missourimary is offline
mary


 
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Re: Have we confused tongues/int. with prophecy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
where are you getting THIS from? Ive never heard once an interpretation that was God yelling AT people and telling them God rejects them if they aren't bawling their eyes out. Are you exaggerating something or did you really hear such a thing?
Congratulations, Prax, you've probably never been to my state, or at least not to visit the churches that fellowshipped ours within the state. Doesn't mean that it never happened.
__________________
What we make of the Bible will never be as great a thing as what the Bible will - if we let it - make of us.~Rich Mullins
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.~Galileo Galilei
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  #59  
Old 01-22-2011, 04:05 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Have we confused tongues/int. with prophecy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by missourimary View Post
Congratulations, Prax, you've probably never been to my state, or at least not to visit the churches that fellowshipped ours within the state. Doesn't mean that it never happened.
So in your state through interpretation of tongues God yelled at the church and said they'd be raped?

That's odd, but I still believe the gifts are for us today and including tongues and interpretation.
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #60  
Old 01-22-2011, 04:09 PM
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missourimary missourimary is offline
mary


 
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Re: Have we confused tongues/int. with prophecy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
So in your state through interpretation of tongues God yelled at the church and said they'd be raped?

That's odd, but I still believe the gifts are for us today and including tongues and interpretation.
I haven't said that they were or weren't. I'm not being dishonest, just trying to be respectful. Incoming PM, Prax.
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What we make of the Bible will never be as great a thing as what the Bible will - if we let it - make of us.~Rich Mullins
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.~Galileo Galilei

Last edited by missourimary; 01-22-2011 at 04:14 PM.
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