“Elevating Pastors” - Page 2

Tithesmeister · #11 08-09-2019, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coksiw

Brother the danger is to equate a Pastor with the Prophets of the Old Testament. It is not the same. We all have the Holy Spirit and are just brethren. A pastor is not the prophet for our life, or like some say “the man of God” for our life. He is not the King either. That’s how you end up with JW and LDS sects, hahaha.

But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ.
— Matthew 23:8-10

If you see the context is about a warning against creating a clergy class inside the church that ends up becoming a trap for the “clergy” and for the “saint”. I’m afraid this is actually the norm in many churches and has become a trap for many, and the over-elevation of Pastors and the counterreaction is just a symptom.

Very well said.

consapente89 · #12 08-09-2019, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coksiw

Brother the danger is to equate a Pastor with the Prophets of the Old Testament. It is not the same. We all have the Holy Spirit and are just brethren. A pastor is not the prophet for our life, or like some say “the man of God” for our life. He is not the King either. That’s how you end up with JW and LDS sects, hahaha.

But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ.
— Matthew 23:8-10

If you see the context is about a warning against creating a clergy class inside the church that ends up becoming a trap for the “clergy” and for the “saint”. I’m afraid this is actually the norm in many churches and has become a trap for many, and the over-elevation of Pastors and the counterreaction is just a symptom.

So let's have a free for all Pentecost with no accountability and no authority? Where every man is right in his own eyes and does as HE feels the Spirit or spirits bid him? No obeying them that have the rule over you, for they watch for your souls.

Has anyone ever noticed that Paul uses the same word, speaking to the Ephesian Elders about their responsibility to feed/rule the flock, as is used of Jesus in Revelation, pertaining to his rule over the nations with a rod of iron? Probably not, because that's not what your looking for..

Go check it out and see what other verses it may be used in. If you want...

Or just keep your free for all Pentecost. I plan to keep a "man of God" in my life.

consapente89 · #13 08-09-2019, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

Should we honor Pastors more than the murmuring children of Israel honored Moses? Do the elder/pastor/teacher really deserve double honor if they rule well and labor in word and doctrine? Would we elevate or esteem Timothy the same as we would Paul? Did David honor Nathan any different than Saul honored Samuel, I would say yes. I would say Saul was like some "saints" that said "Samuel puts his robe on one arm at a time just like the rest of us". While David may have been like other "saints" that say "I perceive that this is an holy man of God, which passeth by us continually. Let us make a little chamber, I pray thee on the wall; and let us set for him there a bed, and a table, and a stool, and a candlestick: and it shall be when he cometh to us, that he shall turn in thither.

I believe we are instructed to give honor where honor is due, the saints in the scripture were told to honor the king and obey them that have rule over them and even treat our employer with respect.

I perceive there is jealousy and envy in the hearts of some because a love of money has defiled hearts of bitter saints.

As long as a Pastor is struggling to make ends meet like some others he's the man of God "look at him struggle, boy he's in the fight with the rest of us", but let him drive a nice truck and live in a nice house and he's too elevated.

Excellent points!!!

Apostolic1ness · #14 08-09-2019, 07:56 AM

Prophets, Apostles, Evangelist, Pastors, Teachers.
For our perfecting.

Apostolic1ness · #15 08-09-2019, 08:04 AM

JamesGlen said; My teenage daughter recently asked me, “daddy, do you think pastors are elevated too much?”

It has been my experience that these types of question don't just pop into the minds of teenagers... If there was no fear of rebuke or questioning of "where did this question come from, and who have you been talking to or hearing from" these questions would never be asked.

not starting a fight but that aint setting well.

loran adkins · #16 08-09-2019, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by consapente89

So let's have a free for all Pentecost with no accountability and no authority? Where every man is right in his own eyes and does as HE feels the Spirit or spirits bid him? No obeying them that have the rule over you, for they watch for your souls.

Has anyone ever noticed that Paul uses the same word, speaking to the Ephesian Elders about their responsibility to feed/rule the flock, as is used of Jesus in Revelation, pertaining to his rule over the nations with a rod of iron? Probably not, because that's not what your looking for..

Go check it out and see what other verses it may be used in. If you want...

Or just keep your free for all Pentecost. I plan to keep a "man of God" in my life.

I think you are mistaken, not only about the verse, but about Paul addressing the Ephesian elders. But I would be interested in the verses you are referring to if you want to post them.

As for a free for all, I don't think anyone is advocating that. But what they are saying is that in many places the pastor is lifted up more than God intended.

In some places the pastor is taken for granted, which should not be. In other places he is elevated way beyond what God intended him to be. It seems that we go from one extreme to another in a lot of ways in church. Not just in the way we esteemed pastors but in much of what we teach.

Apostolic1ness · #17 08-09-2019, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loran adkins

I think you are mistaken, not only about the verse, but about Paul addressing the Ephesian elders. But I would be interested in the verses you are referring to if you want to post them.

As for a free for all, I don't think anyone is advocating that. But what they are saying is that in many places the pastor is lifted up more than God intended.

In some places the pastor is taken for granted, which should not be. In other places he is elevated way beyond what God intended him to be. It seems that we go from one extreme to another in a lot of ways in church. Not just in the way we esteemed pastors but in much of what we teach.

In your experience what are some of the things that are taught on both ends of the spectrum?

aegsm76 · #18 08-09-2019, 08:39 AM

In my old home church, my pastor would only let us take up a special offering for him before general conference.
This would help send him to gc.
I have been in some churches where offerings are taken up for the pastor and wives birthday, anniversary, Christmas, etc..
Sometimes the individuals driving these offerings were not in it to honor the pastor, but rather to curry favor.
A pastor has to be aware of these issues and know how best to deal with them.

coksiw · #19 08-09-2019, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by consapente89

So let's have a free for all Pentecost with no accountability and no authority? Where every man is right in his own eyes and does as HE feels the Spirit or spirits bid him? No obeying them that have the rule over you, for they watch for your souls.

Has anyone ever noticed that Paul uses the same word, speaking to the Ephesian Elders about their responsibility to feed/rule the flock, as is used of Jesus in Revelation, pertaining to his rule over the nations with a rod of iron? Probably not, because that's not what your looking for..

Go check it out and see what other verses it may be used in. If you want...

Or just keep your free for all Pentecost. I plan to keep a "man of God" in my life.

Reading this, I had this image of an elder pastor with a rod of iron coming to my mind,

coksiw · #20 08-09-2019, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loran adkins

I think you are mistaken, not only about the verse, but about Paul addressing the Ephesian elders. But I would be interested in the verses you are referring to if you want to post them.

As for a free for all, I don't think anyone is advocating that. But what they are saying is that in many places the pastor is lifted up more than God intended.

In some places the pastor is taken for granted, which should not be. In other places he is elevated way beyond what God intended him to be. It seems that we go from one extreme to another in a lot of ways in church. Not just in the way we esteemed pastors but in much of what we teach.

Thank you brother for clarifying it