Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple
TG,
Follow me on this.
1 John 4:12
How could they in light of this?
1 Kings 8:27
The omnipresent Spirit is to vast to be contained within the Galaxies.
God is one spirit, person, essence, or being take your pick. He is ONE.
God always was. He never "began" in his "essence".
In the beginning means the beginning of creation.
It was there God needed an image. He would have a throne and a spiritual, heavenly body to manifest his omnipresent being. A form or "expression" so the angels could see him and his glory!
Before creation God existed in only one mode of being, the omnipresent, eternal Spirit.
John 1:1
The Logos was obviously a HIM, verses 3-4.
How could there be a HIM that was WITH GOD if there is only one God?
Consider this. In the literal Greek, Aramaic, and Latin.
John 1:1
If God himself WAS THE WORD then the word that was with God could be a HIM and there would still be only one God. The word which was a him, that God himself was.......was God making, creating, forming a visible image.
The image was not another God person. It was a new MODE OF BEING for the omnipresent, eternal Spirit. The image of the invisible God. Now God had 2 modes of being yet still one person of God.
The Universe would know God THROUGH THE IMAGE. He would still retain his essence as omnipresent Spirit more vast than Galaxies could contain.
When I say the Logos was made, formed, created, brought forth, there are various reasons.
Proverbs 8:22-24
This sounds the same as John 1:1-2. Jesus showed he was the wisdom of God. Compare Luke 11:49 with Matt 23:34
An interesting fact is that in the JPS Hebrew version of Proverbs 8:22 it reads
Just as interesting is the Aramaic of Prov. 8:22
Last but not least the LXX.
Most of us would agree that the word was Jesus pre incarnate.
Note what Jesus said of himself.
Rev 3:14
.[/B]
Absolutely stunning!
When I say the logos-word was CREATED I mean as A NEW AND VISIBLE MODE OF BEING for the omnipresent Jehovah. Not another God person.
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MTD,
You are making a HUGE leap from "God is too vast to be contained by the galaxies" TO "therefore He created an image to express himself to his creation."
Do you have direct scripture for this (not inference)?
From your writings, you are putting a timeline on when the Logos came into being.
I don't think scriptures put a timeline on when the Logos came into being. He has always been. Hence, "In the beginning WAS the Word and the Word WAS with God..."
Just like eternal life which was from the beginning has always been with God. (ref I john 1:1-3). You can't put a timeline on when eternal life began. And we know who eternal life is referring to in
1 John 1:1-3
There was never a time when the Word was not with God.
You are saying (perhaps inadvertently) that there was a time when the Word NOT with God.
I don't agree with this statement.
Bro, not even a trinitarian will say what you're saying (I mean no disrespect).
Some trinitarians will say "He was ETERNALLY begotten." For those of them that do not subscribe to an ETERNALLY begotten Son, they'll say the Word (Logos) has always been before the incarnation.
The point being, the Logos is regarded as eternal even in trinitarian theology. Anyway, I digress.
Now onto "Wisdom of God (Christ) being created" -
You are concatenating
Prov 8 and
Lk 11:49 as evidence that the Logos was created. That's another HUGE leap.
Prov 8 is utilizing anthromorphism to speak about wisdom. Notice the very first 3 verses refer to wisdom as a female. Are you disregarding those verses to arrive at your conclusion?
I don't see how the wisdom of
Prov 8 is talking about Christ.
Yes, God is larger than the universe. That does not automatically mean that the Logos was created so God could express himself to the universe. The Logos is as eternal as God, was with God from eternity and was God.
As far as "in the beginning referring to the beginning of creation"
That's not necessarily correct. The beginning referred to in
Gen 1:1 is the creation of the universe.
The beginning referred to
John 1:1 and
I John 1:1 is eternity past.