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[shazeep]

The Wedding at Cana ~ John 2

1And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there: 2And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage. 3And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

4Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come. 5His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.

6And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. 7Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.

8And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it. 9When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew the governor of the feast called the bridegroom, 10And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now. 11This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

MINE HOUR HATH NOT YET COME.

The wedding to be is at the feast of Tabernacles season where EVERYTHING is about a marriage, even at the feast of Tabernacles the bride circles the alter 7 times as a bride would circle her husband, the feast of Joy.

JOHN 7 AT THE FEAST OF TABERNACLES

6Then Jesus said unto them, My time is not yet come: but your time is alway ready. 7The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil. 8Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come. 9When he had said these words unto them, he abode still in Galilee.
10But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.

Jesus will come in secret at the feast of Tabernacles and when he comes to fulfill this feast of nations, it is the wine harvest, the second coming of Christ.

Is this a bad thing or a good thing?

The First Six Bowls of Wrath ~ Is turning the water into wine the same thing God did in Egypt when he turned the water into blood? Is it the same thing as giving people blood to drink for judgment? last supper? communion?

{HMMM, I don't know}
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"so then, where do i get this blood of the grape?"

Originally Posted by daqq

Fear not, for the Lion of Yhudah has overcome to open the seals of the twenty by ten flying scroll having been written on this side and on that. And the scepter shall not depart from Yhudah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. Binding his foal to the Vine, and his donkey's colt to the choice Vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes: his eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk, (and the wines are drink offerings and speak of covenant). YHWH alone did lead him, and there was no strange elohim with him. He made him ride on the high places of the earth, that he might eat the increase of the fields; and he made him to suck honey out of the rock, and oil out of the flinty rock; butter of kine, and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat; and Yeshurun also has drank of the pure blood of the grape, (but Yeshurun waxes fat, and begins to kick against the cattle prod, and who shall live when El does this?).

[shazeep]

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Originally Posted by daqq

If you can separate yourself mentally from your physical body then you may see your body-temple as your "helpmate", like an earthen vessel, and thus you are the treasure in an earthen vessel, and this is how I understand the composite man Adam who is a composite character for all mankind in the beginning, (whether male or female). What "Adam" therefore did was unnatural because it says that his helpmate-wife gave to him and he ate. We are not supposed to allow our own bodies to rule over our decisions like carnal beasts but rather we are to rule over the flesh and all of its carnal attributes. Adam was not deceived but rather fell into the temptation of the lust of the flesh and allowed his "helpmate" body-temple to tell him what to eat even though he knew that what he ate was forbidden. That is why I tried to show that the flesh, (and soul, meaning "soulish" or natural and carnal), is always spoken of in the feminine gender even as Yeshua himself speaks of his own soul in the John 10:17-18 passage that was previously quoted, (and surely therein he speaks of his body even though psuche is used for soul). It is allegory: your flesh is deceived, my flesh is deceived, and no flesh will ever be justified in the sight of the Father, (and especially since the Father is Spirit). It has nothing to do with physical women being inferior, even from the very beginning, because the very beginning is an allegorical teaching. That is why Chavah, (Eve), is given the name Chavah, which means "living", and is called the mother of all life, that is, "chay", which is raw-life, (not the mother of all living but the mother of all raw(flesh)-life). This word "chay" is not actually chayah, (living, which is the name of Eve), but rather from chayah and is used of animal life and even plant life; it is simply raw(flesh) life. The "flesh" can only be "saved" or delivered through natural procreation so that the natural seed of man continues upon the earth, (child bearing). Not speaking of you but it really is unfathomable that modern mainstream Christian teachers appear to have no clue about such things.

Romans 16:7
7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Messiah before me.

[shazeep]

As for μητρα, the word for the physical womb, (the matrix), it is only found twice in all of the Greek New Covenant Apostolic writings:

G3388 μήτρα metra (mee'-tra) n.
the matrix.
[from G3384]
KJV: womb

The first place we find μητρα is where Luke quotes from the LXX version of the Torah, Luke 2:23, however this is merely a quote from the Torah which speaks not about the nativity account in Luke, which has already been given at this point. The text therefore merely uses an all inclusive word, as was intended in the Torah from which it is quoted, (because it also speaks of beasts and livestock, Exodus 13:2-13), and does not have to do with the infancy narrative in Luke which only uses koilia, (hollow or cavity), and gaster, (belly or stomach) when speaking of Mariam and Elisheba.

Luke 2:23 ASV
23 (as it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb [G3388 μήτρα] shall be called holy to the Lord),

The above includes man and beast or cattle in the Torah, (Exodus 13:2-13), and therefore the usage of μήτρα is unavoidable not only because it is quoting the Torah but likewise because it also speaks of beasts, cattle, lambs, and so on. Thus, for the carnal minded interpretation of the infancy narratives, this is yet another missing link in the carnal-physical understanding because the authors clearly had the opportunity to use the word for the literal matrix or womb of Mariam and yet they did not do so, in fact, it appears they purposely avoided using the literal physical word for the womb. The usage of μητρα in Luke 2:23 actually serves to highlight this missing link in the flesh doctrine more than anything else. The only other place we find μητρα is where Paul speaks of "the deadness of Sarah's womb" in Romans:

Romans 4:19 ASV
19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah's womb; [G3388 μήτρα]

This again serves to show that Paul herein above is speaking in purely physical terms:
UNLIKE the authors of the nativity and infancy narratives

[shazeep]

What therefore does Paul intend in the following passage where he says that Elohim separated him from the koilia-hollow-belly of his mother? We know that before his spiritual rebirth he was known as Saul, a persecutor of the congregation at Yerushalaim and the faithful, and he makes mention of it all in the same passage:

Galatians 1:15
15 οτε δε ευδοκησεν ο θεος ο αφορισας με εκ κοιλιας μητρος μου και καλεσας δια της χαριτος αυτου

"εκ κοιλιας μητρος μου" ~ "from the hollow of my mother"

Galatians 1:13-16
13 For you have heard of my manner of life in time past in the religion of the Yhudim, how that beyond measure I persecuted the congregation of Elohim, and made havoc of it:
14 And I advanced in the religion of the Yhudim beyond many of mine own age among my countrymen, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when it was the good pleasure of Elohim, who separated me from the hollow [koilia] of my mother, and called me through His grace:
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the nations; straightway I conferred not with flesh and blood:

No doubt Paul speaks of his "mother" in this sense as Yerushalaim of Above; which he goes on to make plain for all, clearly stating for everyone who reads this epistle that it is an allegory of two covenants. Sarah represents Yerushalaim of Above while Hagar represents Yerushalaim of Below, that is, those who view the covenant and all things according to the eyes and mind of the physical and flesh minded natural man:

Galatians 4:22-27 KJV
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar [Hagar].
25 For this Agar [Hagar] is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, [of below] and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband [cf. Isaiah 54:1-3 Mishkan-Tabernacle imagery].

The "free woman" is Sarah, the son is Yitzchak the son of promise, and therefore Sarah represents Yerushalaim of Above. The same is true of Rachel, and so on, and so on, until Mariam, who is the final typology of Yerushalaim of Above. Yerushalaim of Above is the primary Covenant, as shown in the allegory of the passage as explained above by Paul himself, and likewise shown by the Mishkan-Tabernacle imagery which is clear in Isaiah 54:1-3 from which Paul quotes. What then does the writer speak of with the following words to Timothy? Does he speak of a natural child birth or a spiritual rebirth? Did Timothy know the sacred scriptures before he was physically born into the world? Of course not! This passage then speaks yet again of spiritual rebirth:

2 Timothy 3:15
15 And that from a babe you have known the sacred scriptures, which are able to make you wise unto salvation, through faithfulness that is in Meshiah Yeshua.

Isaiah speaks of the same herein below and this is, no doubt, where Paul receives his understanding:

Isaiah 49:1-6 Septuagint
1 Hearken to me, O islands; and attend, O nations; after a long time it shall come to pass, says YHWH, from the hollow [koilia] of my mother He has called my name: [Elohey Yisrael, Isaiah 45:3]
2 And He has made my mouth as a sharp sword, and He has hid me under the shadow of His hand; He has made me as a choice shaft, and He has hid me in His quiver.
3 And He said unto me, You are My servant, O Yisrael, and in you I will be glorified.
4 Then I said, I have labored in vain, I have given my strength for vanity, and for nothing; therefore my judgement is with YHWH, and my labor is before my Elohim.
5 And now, thus says YHWH, who formed me from the hollow [koilia] to be His own servant, to gather Yaakob and Yisrael unto Him, and I shall be gathered and glorified before YHWH, and my Elohim shall be my strength:
6 Yea, He said unto me, Is it a great thing for you to be called My servant, to establish the tribes of Yaakob, and to recover the dispersion of Yisrael? Behold, I have given you for the covenant of the peoples, for a light of the nations, that you should be for salvation to the end of the earth!

This is Meshiah speaking, who is born not of a literal virgin or maiden according to the flesh, but rather born out of the koilia, hollow, or belly, the womb of Yerushalaim Above, and that is because Messiah is formed in us when we consume the seed of the Word, (spiritual eating with the ears and eyes; hearing and reading). And his name is Elohey Yisrael, as per Isaiah 45:3 explained previously in this thread, and in him the All Yisrael and Olive Tree of YHWH shall be gathered, that the Father may be glorified in His Yisrael. Therefore Meshiah must be formed in you, as Paul himself says, O Yisrael, for both he that sanctifies and they that are sanctified are all one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, (Hebrews 2:11), that is, they are all to become the suffering servant, Yisrael, (he must increase, but I must die off).

[shazeep]

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Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius

Passover is the sowing season and Pentecost is the harvesting of grains and while you are happy of the grain, the season of your joy remains to be seen at the great ingathering of the fruit harvest, IT IS the fruit harvest, the wine harvest. Total joy only comes at the last harvest when you have gathered in all the grain and all the fruit to last you the coming next year while winter is at hand.


"On the fifteenth of this seventh month is the Feast of Booths for seven days to the Lord" (Leviticus 23:34 ). You shall celebrate the Feast of Booths seven days after you have gathered in [the ingathering, from your threshing floor and your wine vat Deuteronomy 16.


It marks the time of the harvest, the final ingathering of produce before the oncoming winter. Hence, it is also called Hag HaAsif, the festival of Ingathering. As it is written, "You shall celebrate the Festival of In-gathering, at the end of the year, when you gather in your labors out of the field"
(Exodus [Shemot] 23:16). Eddie chumney ~The Feast of Tabernacles (Part 1 of 2)


The feast of Tabernacles is the time when the produce of the field, orchard, and vineyard is gathered in. The granaries, threshing floors, and wine and olive presses are full to capacity. Weeks and months of toil and sweat put into the soil have finally been amply rewarded. The farmer feels happy and elated.


There are two rains, 2 comings of the Lord, and on Sukkot the wine is gathered with the great water ceremony and the wine and water are poured into bowls built on the alter and the water and wine spill out on the sacrifice and onto the earth as a witness and this after the bride has circled the alter 7 times in a wedding procession screaming in joy saying,'' save now.''


Jesus was born on the first day of Tabernacles.


This is all about the second rain, the second coming of the Lord as he will make both rains come down as one, and there will be so much grain that threshing will continue through the wheat and that through fall to the grape harvest.


Joel 3


12Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
13Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
14Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
15The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
16The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
Blessings for God's People
17So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.
18And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine.






Here also is the Evening that when Eve comes,'' BEHOLD, THERE IS LIGHT.''


Zechariah 14 _The extreme light at Tabernacles where for 7 days, there is no nighttime.

4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.


6And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:{The feast of Tabernacles} 7But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.


People in the same valley, same event during the grape harvest and the crushing of the grapes

The feast of Tabernacles is the end and the beginning, it is not separated from any feast, any sacrifice.


The feast of Tabernacles is the last great harvest of all harvests, it IS the great fruit harvest of figs, of grapes, of lemons and limes.

If we look to the basics, then you become the sower in the Passover barley harvest, and you reap your grains in for Pentecost which concludes Passover and you are still worried about the last harvest, your fruit harvest so that on the day of ingathering, you will have gathered your grain, your oil, and your wine because the fruit harvest concludes all harvests, and it is the season of our joy.



Messiah will step right down upon your head as he would an olive tree and the oil will flow. He isn't coming down to set his feet upon the mountain of Olives, maybe he actually will, but that scripture is certainly not speaking of him doing so, it is speaking of him entering the house of EVERYONE, almost everyone, and there he will be, inside you as the olives and the wine are crushed, so too is the person who doesn't watch while a thief is breaking into the very souls.

[shazeep]

They serve at a copy and shadow of the heavenly sanctuary. That is why Moses was warned

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Originally Posted by daqq

I think it is more so what men wrote in their English translations that is the problem. From the original languages for instance even capital punishment can be disputed, even most all of the supposed "killing" of innocent men, women, and children, (because different words for killing, slaying, etc., are used in such cases and there are many idiomatic and allegorical teaching situations, [Torah literally means Teaching]). Even in the trial of Yeshua the lawyers for the Jews fully admit to Pilate that they have no legal authority from their own law to put a man to death, (John 18:31). However when king Jimmy and his court desire the "God-given authority" to rule the empire you bet they are going to afford such things to themselves in their translation of Ye Holy KJV Scriptures. And of course the men have to be able to rule the women too so words for married wives become words that include all females whether married or not, etc., etc., and so on and so on. The problems with most of these things are not from Moshe and the Prophets but from western translators from a western culture who do not understand the Testimony of Yeshua. Yeshua expounds everything one needs to know so as to properly understand (the thinking behind) the Torah and what may be considered lacking Paul surely fills in.

1 Corinthians 9:8-11
8 Say I these things as a man? or does not the Torah say the same also?
9 For it is written in the Torah of Moshe, You shall not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treads out the corn: Does Elohim take care for oxen?
10 Or does He say it altogether for our sake? For our sake, no doubt, this is written: so that the one who plows should plow in hope; and that the one who threshes in hope should be partaker of that hope.
11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

These are "spiritual things" according to Paul; and therefore when you read about oxen in the Torah it is really speaking about mankind in general, and therefore, absolutely full of idiom, similitude, simile, parable, and allegory, (and when it comes to this one interpretive key alone you can take it to the bank in every situation which speaks about oxen). Does Elohim take care for oxen?!? Or does He say it altogether for our sake? For our sake no doubt!

[shazeep]

The fact that a council had to be called up after decades of deciding whether or not Gentiles should keep the laws as Jews did should clue you in that Jews never stopped keeping the Torah, and the man who tries to bring down a people along with their heritage and culture may as well be standing at a train station loading people in.


Gentiles converted Nate.


Christianity didn't change for decades after those first gentile converts. The fact that Paul had to sacrifice under the authority of the priests of Judaism tell you who Paul thought his authority was, and he went to prove his innocence under pain of death if he was teaching Jews not to keep the laws of Moses, but Paul proved those lies to be lies, but liars had to pay to tell a lie against Stephen, and they stoned Stephen for the lie that many would have us believe is true, were liars paid to tell a lie against Stephen or was Stephen guilty of teaching Jews not to keep the laws of Moses?


The great lie,'' Jesus and his disciples came to tear down the religion of God, they all came to stand against the word of God and the laws of Moses.''


That is the lie, and the people who tell that lie are responsible for a great deal of blood on their hands.

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Originally Posted by pinacled

Sodom and Egypt.


Without reading the Torah does the church expect anything of Christ to renew the mind.

It's as if this world has sought after and oppressed the poor in an earnest anticipation. Supposing that if they trampled the grapes of the true vine and climbed the wall themselves a reward was in order.
A sore day indeed when the gifts of one brother is withheld by an injustice of greed and envy.

The wrath will be poured on the drunken *****.
And drunk she is with the blood of the saints.

Amen

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

i dislike this characterization because it suggests retribution rather than manifestation. It makes "bad" rather than recognizing Word, and how Creation works. It is a work, yeh? A tree, when a final gruesome come-uppance is suggested. imo.

How to Recognize the Fallacy of Death Centric Western Christian Models


i still rated you for it tho, of course. blessings

Originally Posted by pinacled

Excellent article to address the civilization that worships mammon.


How often has Christ been ignored.

Originally Posted by pcamps

In favour of the bible.

Originally Posted by pinacled

So the dross will be refined

And blessing to you bluebird

Originally Posted by pinacled

How would you prefer a testimony be given?

Originally Posted by pinacled

I Love this part. Yet these verses are a constant reminder of the extortion so many justify as being the way.



By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

Sweet

So, Word and Book are put at odds, hmm