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  #1  
Old 01-11-2023, 06:12 PM
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Are we are under the commands of the first 5 books

I know some have made the point that we are still required to follow the law under the New Covenant. I occasionally come across some very difficult-to-comprehend laws to follow as a New Covenant believer. Just wanted to start of this thread with one.

Exodus 21:20-21
20......And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
21......Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.

NLT
If a man beats his male or female slave with a club and the slave dies as a result, the owner must be punished. But if the slave recovers within a day or two, then the owner shall not be punished, since the slave is his property.

I am glad the New Covenant requires more out of us.
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  #2  
Old 01-11-2023, 11:02 PM
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Re: Are we are under the commands of the first 5 b

The ark of the covenant holds the 10 commandments written in stone by the finger of God Deuteronomy 10:1-5.

Those first 10 are the Old Covenant written in stone and also the new covenant written on the fleshly tablets of the heart.

Deuteronomy 4:13
13 And he declared to you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments,and he wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Hebrews 8:10
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, declares the Lord:
I will put my laws into their minds,
and write them on their hearts,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.



Statutes and Ordinances (Deuteronomy 4:44-28:68)

The rest of the commandments are statutes and ordinances some of which are either fulfilled in Christ (sacrificial law) or have spiritual application for us today.

Deuteronomy 22:5 for example is a part of the statutes and ordinances which have spiritual application for us today.

Last edited by Amanah; 01-11-2023 at 11:46 PM.
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  #3  
Old 01-12-2023, 12:01 AM
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Re: Are we are under the commands of the first 5 b

Acts 3:22
For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

Moses was a type of Christ:

Moses delivered Israel from Egypt, Jesus delivered man from sin.

Moses gave Israel the law presumably on Pentecost written on stone, Jesus gave us the Holy Ghost on Pentecost written upon our hearts.

The ten commandments where written on stone but not one scripture says the ten commandments where written in our hearts. It says I will write my laws on their hearts, that doesn't say exclusively the ten commandments. All the first five books of our Bible are regarded as the law, and it is all required commands. It is adding to the scripture to say that the ten alone are somehow carried over to be written upon our heart.

Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

I personally feel this is the law written in our hearts. It is the love of God and not a literal list of does and don'ts.
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Old 01-12-2023, 12:04 AM
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Re: Are we are under the commands of the first 5 b

Quote:
Originally Posted by good samaritan View Post
I know some have made the point that we are still required to follow the law under the New Covenant. I occasionally come across some very difficult-to-comprehend laws to follow as a New Covenant believer. Just wanted to start of this thread with one.

Exodus 21:20-21
20......And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
21......Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.

NLT
If a man beats his male or female slave with a club and the slave dies as a result, the owner must be punished. But if the slave recovers within a day or two, then the owner shall not be punished, since the slave is his property.

I am glad the New Covenant requires more out of us.
Is your conscience bugging you or something?
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  #5  
Old 01-12-2023, 12:07 AM
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Re: Are we are under the commands of the first 5 b

Following the 10 commandments is the love of God. They teach us how God wants us to love him and love each other.
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Old 01-12-2023, 12:07 AM
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Re: Are we are under the commands of the first 5 b

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Is your conscience bugging you or something?
Sometimes, but I enjoy the discussion. Iron sharpeneth iron right?
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Old 01-12-2023, 12:09 AM
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Re: Are we are under the commands of the first 5 b

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
Following the 10 commandments is the love of God. They teach us how God wants us to love him and love each other.
Only the ten demonstrate the love of God? I would think we would obey them all to love Him.
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Old 01-12-2023, 12:22 AM
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Re: Are we are under the commands of the first 5 b

Yes, let's obey them all. Some literally, some with spiritual application.
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Old 01-12-2023, 12:34 AM
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Re: Are we are under the commands of the first 5 b

Quote:
Originally Posted by good samaritan View Post
I know some have made the point that we are still required to follow the law under the New Covenant.
(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
(Rom 2:13-15)

Quote:
I occasionally come across some very difficult-to-comprehend laws to follow as a New Covenant believer.
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
(Rom 8:5-8)

Quote:

Exodus 21:20-21
20......And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
21......Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.

NLT
If a man beats his male or female slave with a club and the slave dies as a result, the owner must be punished. But if the slave recovers within a day or two, then the owner shall not be punished, since the slave is his property.

I am glad the New Covenant requires more out of us.
On the one hand, you often speak as if the old covenant was bondage and hard labour, and Christ came to give us liberty and freedom. But then on the other hand you say things like this, about how you think the new covenant "requires MORE out of us". So which one is it? And why do you seem to think in terms of God as being some kind of onerous taskmaster? Everything boils down to "do I HAVE to do such and thus?" with a lot of people, even though that was NEVER God's intent when He made man. I would have supposed that someone who loved God would be thinking more in terms of "how can I best model the will and character of God in my life?" instead of "what do I REALLY have to do? How much of God's instruction can I safely ignore and still make heaven my home?"

You speak of this particular instruction as being some kind of "hard to understand" thing. And it is as if there is some kind of problem with the command itself. Either it is too hard, or too difficult, or does not require enough, or is too lax. But according to the apostle Paul, the problem isn't with the law of God, it is with YOU:

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
(Rom 8:3)

Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
(Gal 3:21)

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
(Rom 7:7-14)

The problem isn't with the law of God, or His commands, or His instructions. The problem is MAN. The problem is man is SINFUL, selfish, ungodly, and walks after the flesh. And therefore refuses to be subject to the law of God. God's law is spiritual, as we just read, but the carnal or natural man rejects the spiritual things of God (like His law):
Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
(Joh 8:43)

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
(1Co 2:14)
What is there that is so confusing about the particular command of God that is being asked about?

Exodus 21:20-21
20......And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
21......Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.

A man has a servant (male or female). If he strikes him (or her) with a rod and kills the servant, the man is guilty of murder. If however the servant is only shook up for a day or two, and thus unable to work, the owner of the servant is not liable to a fine or punishment, because the loss of the servant's work is itself the punishment. That is, the man doesn't have the services of his bondslave during their rest and recuperation period, which is itself counted as a loss to the owner.

Nobody in the West has such servants (at least not legally). So the actual execution of the law is not an issue. There are no legal slaves, so this statute doesn't enter the discussion.

Obviously though we can see a principle here, namely that even slave owners are not above the law of equity. Just because a person may be a slave, or a master, doesn't mean that each of them aren't made in the image of God, and therefore the laws regarding justice, homicide, etc apply to all. The lowest man is still a MAN with rights.

And so we see that God's holy law surpasses the nonsense that passes for "law" invented by men. And we also see the indescribable insanity of the antinomian, who insists that Christ abolished this law and therefore would have NO LAW PROTECTING SERVANTS FROM ABUSE.

But then again, the antinomian also thinks only in terms of themself. They do not consider that perhaps God's law is meant for SOCIETY, not just individuals. Why? Because antinomianism, lawlessness, is essentially and fundamentally SELFISHNESS and SELF CENTEREDNESS.
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  #10  
Old 01-12-2023, 12:39 AM
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Re: Are we are under the commands of the first 5 b

I will probably be posting several more on here. Maybe I could get some help on how to observe them literally or figuratively and the why of the application.
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