Thoughts on Satmar Judaism and Zionism

[Amanah]

Pearl, having read Torah, is expressing what is taught in Deuteronomy, that blessings or curses result from obedience or disobedience. And that God's people are to be a separate and holy nation under his laws and rules, not to become a secular nation like the Zionist state of Israel.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Tithemister, I am eager to hear your explanation as well. Could you please explaining your thoughts?

I think, broadly speaking, anti semitism is commonly understood to be against Jews. Zionism is more of a political position that has to do with supporting Israel. They often are confused and conflated.

For example, if I believe (and I do) that the U.S. should not be giving Israel money, some would believe I am antisemitic (which I am not) others would say that I’m anti Zionist (which again, I’m not) others would say that I am fiscally conservative, which is the choice that I prefer.

I also think that most Pentecostal churches and others are pro Israel or pro Zionist, which I believe is a position derived from Zionist propaganda. Jesus said that the only way to the Father is by Him. Who was He physically speaking to that day? The Jews. Yet people in our churches believe that the Jews get an express ticket to heaven. I think this is an example of Zionism run amok.

That is sort of my thinking on the two. I’m certainly no authority on the subject though. I don’t personally know any Jews and I certainly have nothing against them but for some reason when I voice the opinion that they need Jesus, people seem to believe I’m anti semitic.

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I ask a favor of you. Please listen to this discussion between these two women. Listen carefully to what is being said by both. While some Pentecostals believe they know what Judaism believes, they actually don't. Just like any religion, whether Christianity, Islam, Judaism, there are many thoughts and views. With the situation of Pentecostalism and Zionism, we tend to believe that all Jews are lock step on Zionism. Which we couldn't be further from the truth. The teachings the Satmar Rebbe, Rabbi Yoel Teitelbaum, didn't believe that Zionism was a benefit to the Jewish people. In this discussion many interesting thoughts are brought up. Please listen carefully to what is being discussed.

https://youtu.be/NXpO0THnx3g?si=x-amtzYgGxkIC01_

Havent listened yet but will. The problem is that Zionism is accelerationist by nature. Tikkum Olam*heal the world* only their version of *healing* involves bringing a swift end which will bring about the coming of their Moishiac*I think I spelled that right* and HE is gonna break bad and bring the non jews to heel.


Whats really disgusting is when you have a religion that believes itself so holy that they believe that God is taught by literal Rabbis a certain amount of time per day.


They cant help themsevles elbowing everyone else to sit at the highest seats in the house even to the point where they are getting to teach Jesus how to suck eggs...


But of course thats horribly antisemitic of me.


I sure hope no curses come my way cause I typed words and have a nasty habit of using logic and reason on occasion.


If the only power you have to validate a "curse" is to use public shame and lawfare to silence those with opinions you dont like, God aint involved bro.


Thats a MAN thing.


There wouldnt be a Uncle Adolf lovin biker gang in existence if Holy Writ intended for curses to come upon those that spoke out against those Star of Repham worshipping murdering reprobates who couldnt create a Holy Saint if they multiplied their dried dead law by 10.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Havent listened yet but will. The problem is that Zionism is accelerationist by nature. Tikkum Olam*heal the world* only their version of *healing* involves bringing a swift end which will bring about the coming of their Moishiac*I think I spelled that right* and HE is gonna break bad and bring the non jews to heel.


Whats really disgusting is when you have a religion that believes itself so holy that they believe that God is taught by literal Rabbis a certain amount of time per day.


They cant help themsevles elbowing everyone else to sit at the highest seats in the house even to the point where they are getting to teach Jesus how to suck eggs...


But of course thats horribly antisemitic of me.


I sure hope no curses come my way cause I typed words and have a nasty habit of using logic and reason on occasion.


If the only power you have to validate a "curse" is to use public shame and lawfare to silence those with opinions you dont like, God aint involved bro.


Thats a MAN thing.


There wouldnt be a Uncle Adolf lovin biker gang in existence if Holy Writ intended for curses to come upon those that spoke out against those Star of Repham worshipping murdering reprobates who couldnt create a Holy Saint if they multiplied their dried dead law by 10.

Please listen to the discussion I posted.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I think, broadly speaking, anti semitism is commonly understood to be against Jews. Zionism is more of a political position that has to do with supporting Israel. They often are confused and conflated.

Antisemitism, is defined as being hateful towards 100% of the people who call themselves Jews. Which involves no discussion or reason. Just a hatred towards Jewish people. Yet, like all “isms” this is also misused. Zionism is based on making a country where Jews can be Jews without Judaism. They can be atheist Jews, homosexual Jews, buddhist Jews, and Christian Jews. Which is like having an Atheist Christian. It’s an oxymoron. Theodore Herzl wanted to be able to make a country where Jews could be just like all the other nations. The early rabbis understood this, and therefore warned their people that Zionism was a danger to their religion. Which in the discussion in the video, it was better articulated than I am doing here.

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

For example, if I believe (and I do) that the U.S. should not be giving Israel money, some would believe I am antisemitic (which I am not) others would say that I’m anti Zionist (which again, I’m not) others would say that I am fiscally conservative, which is the choice that I prefer.

It’s just easier to call you an antisemite than to discuss the contradictions in their argument. I’m as anti Zionist as the Satmar Rebbe, who believed the contradictions of the system of Zionism. I’m not an antisemite, because I don’t believe in the ethic cleansing of any people. Yet, me wanting to convert Jews to Christianity would earn any Christian the title of antisemitism. Because to any logical thinking Rabbi, that would be viewed as ethnic cleansing of their people. Just as zionism is ethnic cleansing of their people. Now, I don’t believe that conversion to the Apostolic faith is ethnic cleansing, but the Rabbi would. Can everyone reading this post see this?

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I also think that most Pentecostal churches and others are pro Israel or pro Zionist, which I believe is a position derived from Zionist propaganda.

Actually they are Zionist Christians because of Dispensationalism is focused on Israel getting its physical Kingdom tethered to Christ’s Kingdom. The scripture quote on Abraham’s blessing being imparted to those who blessed him. Is morphed to believe those who bless physical Jews. Making it border on soteriology. Due to the scripture verse saying a cursing to those who refuse to bless the physical Jew. Now, is that Zionist propaganda? Or is that us shooting ourselves in the foot because of false eschatology?

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Jesus said that the only way to the Father is by Him. Who was He physically speaking to that day? The Jews. Yet people in our churches believe that the Jews get an express ticket to heaven. I think this is an example of Zionism run amok.

It’s incorrect eschatology run amok. Think of it this way. Do some teach tithing as a part of Soteriology? The same goes for those who teach physical modern day Israel part of their eschatology. If you teach that modern day Israel isn’t the apple of God’s eye, then your salvation is in danger. Just like those who don’t give tithes are lost.

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

That is sort of my thinking on the two. I’m certainly no authority on the subject though. I don’t personally know any Jews and I certainly have nothing against them but for some reason when I voice the opinion that they need Jesus, people seem to believe I’m anti semitic.

It’s just part of those people being consistent in their beliefs Genesis 12:3.
Therefore they hold a knee jerk reaction to blurt out antisemite! Because they were told to only bless and not curse Abraham’s seed. Yet, they can’t formulate in their mind that it isn’t seeds as many. But only one seed, and that seed is Christ.
In my family I have Jewish relatives, who would be considered, "OTD" which stands for "off the derech". Derech means path or way. In our vernacular “back slidden” Yet, they still see themselves as Jewish, but don’t see Israel as being their country. They wouldn’t support Israel because in their mind it doesn’t mean anything to them. Other than it being a historical Holy land. To us as Christians it is just another plot of land. It’s not holy because if it’s location, just as a Catholic relic of a dead saint isn’t holy. We now live in a time where our politicians have been raised in Dispensationalist churches which are hardcore Zionists. Who are currently making decisions based on those beliefs.

Thank you again for listening to the discussion and giving your valuable input on this subject.

[Tithesmeister]

Breaking it down. I knew you were entirely capable of doing so. Thank you very much.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Breaking it down. I knew you were entirely capable of doing so. Thank you very much.

You are welcome. Again thank you for joining this discussion. I believe it's important to know what is going on with this subject. How not all religious Jews agree with the newly formed country of Israel. I say newly formed because it has only be in existence for about 77 years. Some orthodox Jews see the newly formed country of Israel as an interloper, trying to steal their identity. One needs to remember that Zionism wasn't exactly a Jewish idea, but a Christian idea. The rabbi tries to point out what does it mean to be on the path in Judaism. The rabbi will say to worship God, and to keep God's law. Zionism just states to be a Jew is to just claim the title, and not stay on the path. Therefore these two thoughts cannot be compatible. If people criticize a foreign country, Russia, Ukraine, South Africa, or Finland. No one would raise an eyebrow. But criticize Israel and you are condemned to a burning lake of fire? Israel isn't the Israel of the Bible, therefore no one living today can lay claim on the real estate in the Middle East. Yet, we have politicians here in the United States who whole heartily believe that Benjamin Netanyahu and Ben Gvir are as Jewish as King David.

Did anyone happen to pick up where Pearl mentions that 100% of all Jewish souls (of every individual who would ever claim Judaism) were at the foot of Mount Sinai when Moses brought down the Law?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I think, broadly speaking, anti semitism is commonly understood to be against Jews. Zionism is more of a political position that has to do with supporting Israel. They often are confused and conflated.

For example, if I believe (and I do) that the U.S. should not be giving Israel money, some would believe I am antisemitic (which I am not) others would say that I’m anti Zionist (which again, I’m not) others would say that I am fiscally conservative, which is the choice that I prefer.

I also think that most Pentecostal churches and others are pro Israel or pro Zionist, which I believe is a position derived from Zionist propaganda. Jesus said that the only way to the Father is by Him. Who was He physically speaking to that day? The Jews. Yet people in our churches believe that the Jews get an express ticket to heaven. I think this is an example of Zionism run amok.

That is sort of my thinking on the two. I’m certainly no authority on the subject though. I don’t personally know any Jews and I certainly have nothing against them but for some reason when I voice the opinion that they need Jesus, people seem to believe I’m anti semitic.

Maybe I messed it, but...

"Define "antisemitism", identify the sin which it is the result of, and explain "of what" Zionism is a part (Zionism is a part of what?), please."

You did define antisemitism as "...to be against Jews" but I did not see where you identified the "sin which it is the result of". Also, you said Zionism is a political position that has to do with supporting Israel, but I am not seeing how that explains what you meant when earlier said "It is the result of sin of which Zionism is a part."

I am now supposing that perhaps by "sin" you did not mean any particular transgression of God's commandments, but rather transgression of God's commandments in general? Therefore, you seem to be saying that Zionism (a political position that has to do with supporting Israel) is a part of sin-in-general? So that taken together, you seem to be saying that sin-in-general, of which Zionism is a part of that sin-in-general, produces antisemitism? So that antisemitism is the result of sin-in-general? Or are you saying that antisemitism is the result of some particular sin or combination of sins, and that those particular sin(s) include a political position that supports Israel?

Please clarify.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Now, I don’t believe that conversion to the Apostolic faith is ethnic cleansing, but the Rabbi would. Can everyone reading this post see this?

Yes, since Jewish identity pretty much includes "not a Christian". So conversion to Christianity makes a Jew a "non-Jew" in many Jewish eyes, or at best a completely deceived and misled Jew. Christian conversion of Jews is viewed by Jews as Christian elimination of Jewishness and Jewish identity. Largely because both race and religion are often confounded in Jewish identity politics and beliefs.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Yes, since Jewish identity pretty much includes "not a Christian". So conversion to Christianity makes a Jew a "non-Jew" in many Jewish eyes, or at best a completely deceived and misled Jew. Christian conversion of Jews is viewed by Jews as Christian elimination of Jewishness and Jewish identity. Largely because both race and religion are often confounded in Jewish identity politics and beliefs.

Yes, so the same way Zionist ideology strips the Jew of what Rabbis like the Satmar Rebbe foresaw. They would no longer be on the path in devotion to God and observance of the Law. Misled, and deceived by Zionism.

"Benjamin Netanyahu proudly stated that his appearance in the rally last month in Paris and his planned address to the US Congress were in his capacity 'not just as the prime minister of Israel but as a representative of the entire Jewish people.'”
~Jerusalem Post

Wouldn't this be considered blasphemy to the God observing Jew? Benjamin Netanyahu stating that he is the King of the Jews? Even the secular Jew, living in other countries would raise an eyebrow, and think who made this foreign ruler my ruler? Sadly people have a cognitive dissonance when faced with this subject. They hear Benjamin Netanyahu make a statement like "not just as the prime minister of Israel but as a representative of the entire Jewish people" then shake their heads yes.

Benjamin Netanyahu's father wrote a book about Rabbi Isaac Abravanel. In the eschatology of Rabbi Don Isaac Abravanel he believed that the lower legs of Nebuchadnezzar's image were Islam and Christianity. Rabbi Isaac Abravanel viewed Islam and Christianity as the enemies of the Jewish people. Therefore in his eschatology the two would wipe each other out, and the Jews would inherit the earth.

People throughout history have tried to help their eschatological beliefs along.
Marching towards Armageddon with bright eyes and wide smiles. Did Benzion Netanyahu (Benjamin Netanyahu's father) who wrote a book about Rabbi Don Isaac Abravanel, believe the same eschatology? That United States with Benjamin Netanyahu with the far right extremist Jewish Settlers steer us all into another war in the Middle East? With Iran? I hardly believe that these events would wipe out Islam and Christianity. So Jews would have a utopian world. But it sure looks like congressmen (raised with dispensationalism) and Netanyahu with Rabbi Don Isaac Abravanel eschatology are trying to make it all come true.

Some Jews, secular, and religious don't buy any of this. There are Jews who are American first, and not Israel first. They view Israel as just another foreign country. They can see plainly that Israel has kept the United States involved in wars in the Middle East for years.

Criticizing Israel and its policies shouldn't be thought to be blasphemous.

Marjorie Taylor Greene refused to vote for a bill that would require the Department of Education to use the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) working definition of antisemitism when enforcing anti-discrimination laws. She voted against the bill over concerns it could make parts of the Bible illegal.

Eschatologies "plural" are a funny thing. It sure messed up David Koresh and the Waco Branch Davidians. All the dominos fell just right with the ATF, FBI and the Branch Davidians. In the minds of the Branch Davidians it was everything they were taught concerning their eschatology. So, they flowed with it. Koresh kept going and wanted to write his angel message. Because he believed it was all coming to pass. At the end it was too far gone to ever stop.