Tenneys at Free Chapel for Pentecost Sunday

[ThePastorsCoach]

Originally Posted by Sam

Baptists aren't all bad.
The first Gen. Supt. of the UPC said that Baptists will be in the rapture.

I know some Baptist that I don't think will make it - but then again - I know a few "Oneness" Pentecostals that I have doubts about too!

[Thad]

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop

Hey THAD - Been in Hawaii for 11 days and am glad to be home - we had a GREAT PENTECOST SUNDAY at Church Alive of Atlanta!

We have been Sooooooooooooooooo busy as we are moving our home across town - boxing up - getting everything ready for the big move after 13 years in this house. Plus we are moving CHURCH ALIVE into much larger facilities by July 1 so we are VERY BUSY!

Answers to your questions.
1. Lots of Ex-UPC's at Free Chapel - including several women that their UPC pastor husbands left them and the church for other women.
I have several family members there - including my very Godly - Holiness - Mother in Law and my youngest Son is a member there and works with Pastor Franklin on many of his Illustrated Sermons and travels with him at times.

JF has been highly influenced by Tommy Tenney, TF & Thetus Tenney, Steve & Phil Muncie, T. D. Jakes and many others with Apostolic foundations. All of these continue to believe the Revelation of Jesus Christ and baptism in the Name of Jesus. I know that is not good enough for some - but as far as I can see - nothing is ever good enough and you can never do enough to be saved anyway in the "Oneness" movement.

I do not believe TFT has tried to indoctrinate JF or Jim Cymbyla or any other pastor he ministers for in "Oneness Theology". I do know that he and many of us try our best to be an Apostolic Influence to others. They do ask questions and we do answer them and some of us are very respected outside the "Oneness" ranks and we do baptize many that have never even HEARD of the UPC.

It amazes me that the group that advertises among themselves as "The Whole Gospel for the Whole World" - really only wants it preached inside their own four walls.

TFT preached about PENTECOST and the Power of the Holy Ghost to over 7000 at Free Chapel on Sunday and many hundreds were filled. I find it amazing that people can disagree with that.

I'm going to stop by if/when I ever get back to Atlanta count on it.

okay, I hear ya, but my curiousity is still peeked about JFs take on the ONeness/Trinity debate. I know that he came up in the PCOG i read about his background someplace and they are die Hard anti Oneness. in fact, i remember a few Years PCOG was scheduled to have Jakes UNTIL it was discovered that he was oneness afterwhich he was immediatley cancelled.
The old gaurd Trins can still be like that believe it or not because they are like that here in my community.
So, you don't think that Tenney hopes to change JF from being a trinitarian at all??? MAN, i sure would like to pick their brains!

BTW, Gainsville is a very small town isn't it? about an hour from Atlanta?

[ThePastorsCoach]

Originally Posted by Thad

I'm going to stop by if/when I ever get back to Atlanta count on it.

okay, I hear ya, but my curiousity is still peeked about JFs take on the ONeness/Trinity debate. I know that he came up in the PCOG i read about his background someplace and they are die Hard anti Oneness. in fact, i remember a few Years PCOG was scheduled to have Jakes UNTIL it was discovered that he was oneness afterwhich he was immediatley cancelled.
The old gaurd Trins can still be like that believe it or not because they are like that here in my community.
So, you don't think that Tenney hopes to change JF from being a trinitarian at all??? MAN, i sure would like to pick their brains!

BTW, Gainsville is a very small town isn't it? about an hour from Atlanta?"

THAD - we would love to have you! Y'all come see us now - ya hear!

JF has great regard for many Apostolic men. He was raised COG and I am sure that he - as I was - heard F-S-HG many times. The difference is - We only heard the words - there is NOT in depth doctrinal preaching and definitions in "Trinity" like there is in "Oneness." I was 4th Generation Church of God (Cleveland, TN) and went to Tomlinson Bible College and never did hear or preach a message on the Trinity. They are just not taught doctrine like Oneness people are.

Bishop Jakes was scheduled for a COG event and after he heard that his "statement of faith" was questioned - HE graciously backed out of the booking. The COG did NOT cancel him. They were left with egg all over their face when it was found out what really happened. Many of their preachers were mad as they could be that Bishop Jakes and his doctrine was questioned. There are MANY COG & A/G men that have no problem with Jakes and his doctrinal statement. They were HIGHLY EMBARRASSED that he canceled.

I have been with Bishop Jakes and Pastor Franklin and have discussed many times with them about the UPC and Oneness Theology. We just refuse to fall out with people and send them to hell that don't agree with how we baptize and if we say persons or manifestations. To most - It just is not that big of a deal. I know it is EVERYTHING with most on here - but these guys think the fighting is just crazy.

I certainly do not think that TFT is out to change the theology of JF or anyone else. It is ALL about influence. The very fact that TFT preached in one of the major churches in America and that he has incredible influence with major pastors in the nation - should speak volumes about Apostolic Influence. I certainly do not agree with everything TFT teaches or preaches - but I highly admire him and honor him as a great Man of God. He is an incredible voice and statesman for the Apostolic Movement.

Personally - I think he should distance himself from it like I have and most of my friends have. For me - it became a liability instead of an asset to my ministry.

Yes - Gainesville is a small - but growing town - an hour north of Atlanta.

[Old Paths]

[Sandra]

Originally Posted by Thad

I'm going to stop by if/when I ever get back to Atlanta count on it.

okay, I hear ya, but my curiousity is still peeked about JFs take on the ONeness/Trinity debate. I know that he came up in the PCOG i read about his background someplace and they are die Hard anti Oneness. in fact, i remember a few Years PCOG was scheduled to have Jakes UNTIL it was discovered that he was oneness afterwhich he was immediatley cancelled.
The old gaurd Trins can still be like that believe it or not because they are like that here in my community.
So, you don't think that Tenney hopes to change JF from being a trinitarian at all??? MAN, i sure would like to pick their brains!

BTW, Gainsville is a very small town isn't it? about an hour from Atlanta?

when I accidentalliy texted TFT sat. he was on his way to JF!

[ThePastorsCoach]

Originally Posted by Sandra

when I accidentalliy texted TFT sat. he was on his way to JF!

If I knew how to reach him - I would tell him THANK YOU for being such and incredible influence on JF and FC. He took time to talk with my mother in law - Sister Younce and Sister in Law - Norma Leaman - she is Rodney Leamans wife and they pastor The Potters House in Wewahitchica, FL - Rodney is UPC as is his dad - Jack Leaman that was in the Missions Dept at WEC for years.

I so wish I could tell Brother Tenney how much I really appreciate him.

[Thad]

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop

THAD - we would love to have you! Y'all come see us now - ya hear!

JF has great regard for many Apostolic men. He was raised COG and I am sure that he - as I was - heard F-S-HG many times. The difference is - We only heard the words - there is NOT in depth doctrinal preaching and definitions in "Trinity" like there is in "Oneness." I was 4th Generation Church of God (Cleveland, TN) and went to Tomlinson Bible College and never did hear or preach a message on the Trinity. They are just not taught doctrine like Oneness people are.

Bishop Jakes was scheduled for a COG event and after he heard that his "statement of faith" was questioned - HE graciously backed out of the booking. The COG did NOT cancel him. They were left with egg all over their face when it was found out what really happened. Many of their preachers were mad as they could be that Bishop Jakes and his doctrine was questioned. There are MANY COG & A/G men that have no problem with Jakes and his doctrinal statement. They were HIGHLY EMBARRASSED that he canceled.

I have been with Bishop Jakes and Pastor Franklin and have discussed many times with them about the UPC and Oneness Theology. We just refuse to fall out with people and send them to hell that don't agree with how we baptize and if we say persons or manifestations. To most - It just is not that big of a deal. I know it is EVERYTHING with most on here - but these guys think the fighting is just crazy.

I certainly do not think that TFT is out to change the theology of JF or anyone else. It is ALL about influence. The very fact that TFT preached in one of the major churches in America and that he has incredible influence with major pastors in the nation - should speak volumes about Apostolic Influence. I certainly do not agree with everything TFT teaches or preaches - but I highly admire him and honor him as a great Man of God. He is an incredible voice and statesman for the Apostolic Movement.

Personally - I think he should distance himself from it like I have and most of my friends have. For me - it became a liability instead of an asset to my ministry.

Yes - Gainesville is a small - but growing town - an hour north of Atlanta.

now wait a sec, you, JF and Jakes discussed the UPC???? i want to know what Jakes said about the UPC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i want to be a fly on the wall next time

Saundra you tell TFT that i want to talk to him about all this will you?

[Old Paths]

BISHOP TFT?


Yeah right.

[ThePastorsCoach]

Originally Posted by Thad

now wait a sec, you, JF and Jakes discussed the UPC???? i want to know what Jakes said about the UPC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i want to be a fly on the wall next time

Saundra you tell TFT that i want to talk to him about all this will you?

I took a group of pastors with me to hear TDJ preach for JF in the old building. He took over an hour to just talk to us about the UPC, the Apostolic movement, his stand and doctrinal beliefs. I have sat and talked with him many times about all of it. He along with others are like - What is wrong with these organizations that give up and push out - the best and most progressive men in it???
They think for the most part - the UPC is strange - because they have only met the good guys that left - and then the NUT cases that come in and put WATER BAPTISM and WHY I DO NOT HAVE A TV tracts in the pews and offering baskets!
I tell you the truth - I shudder when I see them come through the doors of my church - I know EXACTLY what I am going to have to deal with - they all sit and judge everyone and everything that goes on. I know that is not ALL of the UPC or Apostolics - but ones that visit around and the NUTS DO all that!!!!!!!!!!!! I certainly DO NOT want them to even visit my church!

TDJ along with many others - just cannot understand why the obsession with control and making everyone look the same and believe exactly the same. They are very secure in their Revelation of who God is and that Jesus is the Mighty God and they baptize in the Name of Jesus and thousands receive the Holy Ghost in their meetings and churches - but as we talk about so many times - IT IS NEVER ENOUGH.
Personally - it was not enough that I came to Atlanta and raised up a great church for the UPC - It was predominately Black - so they brought in another preacher (former board member) to have a "white" church here.
It was not enough that I did not have a TV, facial hair, my wife did not wear pants or paint or jewelry - They demanded that everyone else shave, obey all their silly rules like NO MICKEY MOUSE WATCHES................IT IS NEVER ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!
I should not have EVEN started this - my blood boils when I get going on it.
It is pure stupidity as far as I am concerned.

[ManOfWord]

Gotta say I agree with you wholeheartedly, here, AB!!!!!!! Too much of it is simply ridiculous!