The "Binitarian" Jesus

[Costeon]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Getting into the mechanics of the incarnation is fraught with difficulty, because the explanations we seek to provide are often simply not given in Scripture. So we are prone to errors in our choices of terms and in our presentations and explanations.

Honestly, the BEST explanation I have read is by Servetus in his On The Errors Of The Trinity. It is not perfect, but it is the best I have read so far.

I wish the detail was given in Scripture.

I think I may have Servetus's book (Google Books). If I recall, it is a very old translation. Do you have a more modern translation, or is it old?

Can you summarize briefly his explanation?

[Costeon]

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

Thank God!

[Costeon]

Originally Posted by diakonos

“God didn’t send his son, he sent himself.”
-my first pastor

I have heard similar things on multiple occasions. It's probably been rare that I've just heard someone say that God sent his Son without immediately saying, "Now God didn't send someone else. He loved the world so much HE came."

I just want to be able to use scriptural terms and concepts without having to qualify them all the time.

I realize this practice arose because of distancing ourselves from Trinitarians.

[Costeon]

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.

Amen!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Costeon

I have heard similar things on multiple occasions. It's probably been rare that I've just heard someone say that God sent his Son without immediately saying, "Now God didn't send someone else. He loved the world so much HE came."

I just want to be able to use scriptural terms and concepts without having to qualify them all the time.

I realize this practice arose because of distancing ourselves from Trinitarians.

Why isn’t Isaiah 9:6 not enough?

When I was a new convert, I had a very powerful experience. I felt like I was awake, but I was asleep. I heard a woman’s voice say, “Who is the Father, who is the son, who is the Holy Ghost?

A man’s voice answered, “For unto us a child is born, For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”

I don’t have to try to explain anything other than He came to fulfill the law. And He couldn’t do that unless he was related, hence, He must be a man.

We know that everything that Jesus did, was for our example - how to live, how to love, how to pray how to forgive, how to heal, etc.

I think we are making things way too hard. I didn’t see any confusion with Cornelius or the thousands who were added to the church daily. Today, we are twisting ourselves in knots trying to compete with the so-called intellectuals. JMHO.

[Costeon]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Binitarianism is a belief in two DIVINE persons in the Godhead. God in Christ does not not fit that view.

Yes, but the Father and the Son do interact as individuals in personal relationship. People say that Jesus is the Father and Jesus is the Son, and since we see the Father and Son in relationship with one another, this is similar to "binitarianism"--one Being, Jesus, who consists of two "Persons," one human and one divine.

[Costeon]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

The problem with so many today in Pentecost is their dread of separating the father and the son, the flesh and the spirit. They are afraid if the differentiate between the flesh and the spirit, the father and the son, that they will fall into the same camp of the binnies or the trinnies.

Yet there is and needs to be a difference.

To say the son created Himself is error. God the Father, created the flesh, the son.

When you say "flesh," what do you mean? Just a human body, or a complete human being, or what?

[Steven Avery]

Originally Posted by Costeon

I think I may have Servetus's book (Google Books). If I recall, it is a very old translation. Do you have a more modern translation, or is it old?

Earl Morse Wilbur.
Solid English.

However, that may be the editor of an edition.

Earl Morse Wilbur is 1866-1956.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Morse_Wilbur

And in some places it says he first translated it into English in 1932, so the 1801 and 1802 dates might be something different.

The Two Treatises of Servetus on the Trinity: On the Errors of the Trinity, 7 Books, A.D. 1531. Dialogues on the Trinity, 2 Books. On the Righteousness of Christ's Kingdom, 4 Chapters, A.D. 1532
https://archive.org/details/M.Servet...e/n19/mode/2up

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by Costeon

Just a quick reply, and then I'll try to respond more fully later. I wasn't quite sure what word to use, so I put "binitarian" in quotes because I was not meaning precisely what the Church of God has taught about two divine persons. I was focusing on the fact that we have two individuals, Father and Son, who are in personal relationship, yet both, according to Bernard et al, are united in one Being--Jesus Christ. So One being composed of two, Father and Son.

The fact is - as was already pointed out earlier in the thread - the great mystery of Godliness is how God was manifested in the flesh. No one can know exactly how it works, just that it does. Yet, we have many verses which show Jesus speaking as God or as man. So either Jesus is another God, or Jesus is the one great God. One verse I like to point out (that I don't see often used), is John 14:16-18

16) And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17) Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18) I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Jesus talks about the Father sending another comforter, then almost immediately turns around and says that HE will come to us. So if Jesus is God, and God is one, then Jesus is the one true God. It's simple logical procession.

A great little book (not perfect, but good enough) that I read many years ago, is called "Is Jesus in the Godhead, or is the Godhead in Jesus?" by Gordon Magee. Turns out it's even on Amazon Kindle.

https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Godhead.../dp/B004I43876

[1 God]

Maybe God is inside Jesus and speaking through him? He can do that to/through us, so why not Jesus?