Original Sin/Ancestral Sin

[bkstokes]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Moses the TRUE prophet opposed to Branham the FALSE prophet said the trees grew OUT OF THE GROUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I prefer Moses over Bill any day of the week.
But since you raised the subject what or who was the tree of knowledge?

Was the Garden of Eden a real literal place?

Good points Bro E

[Adino]

Steve, do you believe man is born spiritually alive or spiritually dead?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Adino

Steve, do you believe man is born spiritually alive or spiritually dead?

alive

[Adino]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

alive

Mizpeh, do you believe man who is born spiritually alive possesses the indwelling of God at birth? Is man indwelled by God at birth only to subsequently have the Spirit leave him?

How was David shapen (brought forth) in iniquity and conceived in sin? (Psalms 51:5)

How do you interpret Romans 5:19 which says that Adam's transgression 'made' us sinners? It gives the impression we did not become sinners only after our first sin engendered by the sin nature but that Adam's sin actually made us sinners.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Adino

Steve, do you believe man is born spiritually alive or spiritually dead?

Dead to God however he is alive in that he has free-will.

Man is born with the ability to choose or reject. However he is spiritually dead in that he is NOT born saved LIKE the Calvinist and ole Luther taught.

[Adino]

Steve, if man is spiritually separated from God at birth (i.e., spiritually dead), wouldn't it logically follow that the sin causing the separation/death has to be a sin reckoned to his account which he did not commit of his own accord? A sin reckoned to his account which is foreign to him?

Originally Posted by Adino

Steve, if man is spiritually separated from God at birth (i.e., spiritually dead), wouldn't it logically follow that the sin causing the separation/death has to be a sin reckoned to his account which he did not commit of his own accord? A sin reckoned to his account which is foreign to him?

Friend.. keep on knocking on that door.. someone must face the truth and the direction you are headed in is PURE TRUTH

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Adino

Steve, if man is spiritually separated from God at birth (i.e., spiritually dead), wouldn't it logically follow that the sin causing the separation/death has to be a sin reckoned to his account which he did not commit of his own accord? A sin reckoned to his account which is foreign to him?

I understand this man by nature is a sinner in that he is disposed to sin. Leave every man alone and without a teacher he will sin.
OUr own nature leads us astray as the scriptures teach.

But are infants sinners themselves without sinning?

I struggle with that concept. NO temptation yet sins, no conscious choice yet sin? No committing yet sin?

In time we all will but as infants it just doesn't click somehow with me. This has been a dilema in my mind for years.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn

Friend.. keep on knocking on that door.. someone must face the truth and the direction you are headed in is PURE TRUTH

DV my friend Adino is an unconfessed Calvinist or Lutheran to say the least. If he doesn't believe in all 5 points of Calvinism he is not far. So Calvinism you claim to deny is PURE truth?

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Adino

Never said it was. Both are results of Adam's transgression. Why do you believe we would inherit one without the other?

I think the point is that since saved persons ALSO die a physical death, that physical death cannot equate spiritual death due to a sinful existence. The logic doesn't hold.

A child can die a physical death, but an innocent soul can still go back to God who gave it. Physical death and spiritual death are in no way synonymous, nor does one indicate the other.