The Alliance Defending Freedom - CSpan

[Pressing-On]

Religious Freedom and Civil Rights The Alliance Defending Freedom held a discussion on the tension between religious freedom and civil rights. Speakers included small business owners with deeply-held religious beliefs who face civil penalties, loss of their business, and retaliation from some in their communities for refusing service to same-sex couples.

Excellent Q&A with businesses who have been targeted by the ALCU and the Attorney General.

If you have the time, it is encouraging that these people are not going to lay down and allow the government to force them to put their religion on a back burner.

I think you will remember these people from the news.

Barronell Stutzman, Arelene's Flowers - 32:00 mark - "MY SOURCE OF STRENGTH -- WE HAVE ALL BEEN THROUGH TRIALS AND TRIBULATIONS IN OUR LIVES THAT BROUGHT US TO WHERE WE ARE AND THEY AREN'T NECESSARILY THINGS WE WANT TO GO THROUGH, BUT WERE PUT THROUGH AND ONE OF THE THINGS -- A COUPLE OF THINGS I HAVE BEEN THROUGH THAT REALLY HARD TIMES IN MY LIFE, RIGHT AFTER I WAS MARRIED I FOUND OUT I HAD BREAST CANCER AND MY FATHER PASSED AWAY AND I THINK GOD TOOK ALL OF THOSE THINGS THAT I DID NOT UNDERSTAND TO USE THEM TO PREPARE ME FOR WHAT HE HAS FOR ME TODAY. GOD DOESN'T NEED ME, ALL I HAVE TO OFFER HIM IS MY SIN AND HE SAYS IF WE SEEK HIM OUT AND ARE OBEDIENT HE WILL TAKE CARE OF US AND THAT IS WHAT I CAPS ON -- AND THAT IS WHAT I COUNT ON."

Kelvin Cochran, Former Atlanta Fire Chief - 27:00 mark - "ALL OF MY LIFE SINCE I BECAME A CHRISTIAN FROM AN EARLY AGE MY FAMILY HAS BEEN HEAVILY INVOLVED IN SUNDAY SCHOOL VACATION BIBLE SCHOOL, BAPTIST TRAINING, WE JUST CONSTANTLY ON THE FACE AND ONE OF THE TERMS THAT DESCRIBE MY FAITH IS A LIVING FAITH WHICH SIMPLY MEANS THAT WHEN YOU LIVE OUT THROUGH FAITH AND OBEDIENCE THERE SHOULD BE EVIDENCE THAT IT IS REAL. GOING UP -- GROWING UP IN POVERTY IN SHREVEPORT, LOUISIANA AND EATING MAYONNAISE SANDWICHES WHEN THE WELFARE CHECKS AND FOOD STAMPS RAN OUT AND HAVING UTILITIES CUT OFF FROM TIME TO TIME, HAVING A DREAM THAT I WANTED TO BE A FIREFIGHTER ONE DAY, HAVING A DREAM THAT I WOULD BE A FATHER AND A HUSBAND ONE DAY, I WAS TAUGHT THAT YOUR FAITH AND OBEDIENCE TO THAT WOULD CAUSE OF THAT TO HAPPEN, ESPECIALLY IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. LIVING OUT OF THAT FAITH, I AM ONE OF THOSE AMERICAN CHRISTIANS -- MY LIFE IS PROOF THAT IT IS A LIVING FAITH, THAT JESUS CAME SO WE MAY HAVE LIFE AND HAVE IT MORE ABUNDANTLY. NONE OF MY CHILDREN KNOW WHAT IT IS LIKE TO HAVE TO EAT MELANIE -- MAYONNAISE SANDWICHES. THEY DO NOT KNOW WHAT IT IS LIKE FOR OUR WATER TO BE TURNED OFF AND LIGHTS TO BE TURNED OFF BECAUSE WE HAVE A LIVING FAITH. I BECAME A FIREFIGHTER, I BECAME THE HIGHEST FIRE OFFICIAL IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA BECAUSE IT IS A LIVING FAITH. IN OUR FAITH, IF WE BELIEVE IT WE SHOULD LIVE IT OUT. IT SHOULD BE A PUBLIC DEMONSTRATION OF OUR FAITH SO THAT WHEN PEOPLE ARE SO CURIOUS ABOUT, HOW IS IT THAT YOU CAN HAVE THIS LIFE, WE CAN POINT THEM TO JESUS CHRIST. IT IS A MATTER OF FACT THAT JESUS SAID IF YOU DENY ME PUBLICLY, I WILL DENY YOU BEFORE MY FATHER IN HEAVEN. WHEN WE HAVE TO MAKE A CHOICE ACCORDING TO THE WAY I WAS RAISED, WHEN YOU HAVE TO MAKE A CHOICE BETWEEN YOUR FAITH AND YOUR JOB, YOU CHOOSE YOUR FAITH AND THAT IS WHAT I DID."

https://www.c-span.org/video/?417426...ion&start=1922

[KeptByTheWord]

Wow, this is awesome testimony of faith PO... thank you for sharing! I hope Shaz reads this to see... there are people everywhere, perhaps even unseen to us... who are living their lives out in devotion to their faith in Jesus.

Thanks for sharing this good piece of news!

And I notice that so far I have been the only one to comment... just shows how fast good news travels... sadly.

[shazeep]

ok well i found the 27:00 mark, which isn't putting me in the picture. so while i have the gist, from their side of the story, guess i'll have to watch it all to comment, as the two synopses up there are not quite putting me in the picture either. good day for it tho, so i'll be back this aft prolly.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Wow, this is awesome testimony of faith PO... thank you for sharing! I hope Shaz reads this to see... there are people everywhere, perhaps even unseen to us... who are living their lives out in devotion to their faith in Jesus.

Thanks for sharing this good piece of news!

And I notice that so far I have been the only one to comment... just shows how fast good news travels... sadly.

I didn't catch my typo above in time - ACLU. The lack of comments aren't something I am concerned about. The views show me that at least 268 people, thus far, have possibly clicked on the link and listened.

I am glad you enjoyed it. I liked the testimony by Blaine Adamson at the 43:00 marker, and it's interesting that what he said wasn't included in the transcript:

Mollie Hemingway: WE ARE ALL LEARNING ABOUT THESE CASES AND ALL WONDERING WHEN THIS FIGHT MIGHT COME TO US. YOU GUYS ARE ALREADY EXPERIENCING THE FIGHT. BUT HOW DO YOU HAVE THE STRENGTH TO TAKE THIS ON. IT WOULD BE SO MUCH EASIER TO SUCCUMB AND YOU'RE NOT DOING THAT. I'M CURIOUS WHERE THE STRENGTH IS COMING FROM.

Blaine Adamson: DEFINITELY THE RELATIONSHIP WITH JESUS CHRIST. MY LIFE AND MY WORSHIP OF GOD IS NOT JUST CONFINED TO A BUILDING. >> .

This is the part they left out:

"It's how I live my life. It's how I love my wife. It's the TV shows I watch. It's how I work. It's how I treat my neighbors. All of that is an act of worship. And, so, if at the end of the day, God can look at me and say, 'Well done my good and faithful servant'... I mean that is the sort of the hope of the journey that I am on. And it's really the Word of God, I feel like...just...you talk about God preparing you for something...and just the more you read the scriptures and you get the truth of God, it's kind of like this guide that keeps you in the right...because society's views are going to shift and change, but God's doesn't change. And so, He's my strength. He's what I go back to and say, 'Okay God, whatever it takes. Whatever the cost is, I'm okay with it because my hope is in you, not in man."

Good words!!!

[shazeep]

well, i have to ask why the fire chief is not countersuing, if he is being discriminated against? it certainly sounds like he has a watertight case, doesn't it? so, why is he succumbing? So, possibly the best case we will find here, the one with the best evidence, no he-said-she-said, is the only one not going to court? Why isn't he dedicating his life to standing up now, when it counts?

as to the rest of these, frankly, i believe these people, more or less, but we are only hearing one side of the story. My guess is that they were targeted; but at least they are manning up, and following through. So, i would like to hear the resolution of these cases, because after all, that is what court is for.

so i don't think it would be right of me to make any kind of judgement here, except to say that in the first case, that of the fire chief, i am now suspicious, not sympathetic. I do empathize with all of them, but i detect that we are dancing around the bush of Vampirella, and you have just found some cases where "others" happen to be in the wrong, from a moral pov--at least i hope so, even if Fire Chief has me wondering.

But this does not alter the fact that no one seems able to answer me when i ask "how is Vampirella's appearance supposed to alter my treatment of her?" from which, let's be honest, all of this other confusion now stems.

[shazeep]

what i notice, iow, is that the one case where there is no buying and selling going on, that is not going to court, is being used to set the tone here, for the other cases that are about buying and selling, that are going to court. So, we are being spun here. Now, i am going to skip to the end, and see if there is any discussion, wherein this might be brought out, and we'll see; but my guess is "no, that will not come out," and i won't be back here, today. We'll see.

[shazeep]

yes, so as i suspected, this did not come out, and the one case of not buying and selling--who has no case--gets back up not once but twice, to improperly conflate God with the Constitution, that he has pledged allegiance to, and the state senate even confirms that he is doing just fine there...so who fired him? Why does he not stand up for his faith, in the Constitution, and oh ya God too, with all of this backing?

and it is not a puzzle, how these cases of buying and selling will end-- after all, the decision has already been made--so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark: the beast's name or the number of his name, which we see reflected in the precedence already set in the Lakewood Cake case et al, and which the Catholics that comprise the Supreme Court are not going to reverse. "...and you yourselves can become his servants. 18When that day comes, you will cry out because of the king you’ve chosen for yourselves,  but the LORD won’t answer you on that day.” 

These are great people, Christian Patriots All, on a wonderful journey of discovering that there is no such thing. Trade me some cake, and flowers, and t shirts, for my hemp, and my goat's milk, and my eggs, and politely refuse to pay taxes (or vote, or talk to police--except in the Public Interest), which are always the clue that you are completely sucked in to the world, and have made yourself subject to the Law.

See how there can be no case--as distinct from the guy with an airtight case, who has no case--against trading, because there is no law; and not because they haven't tried, they have tried mightily. There might even be some slippery ordinance somewhere, that no one can enforce, of course, and one need have no fear of even advertising their desire to trade--it's all over CL--because if they get sued, they am going to win.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by shazeep

well, i have to ask why the fire chief is not countersuing, if he is being discriminated against? it certainly sounds like he has a watertight case, doesn't it? so, why is he succumbing? So, possibly the best case we will find here, the one with the best evidence, no he-said-she-said, is the only one not going to court? Why isn't he dedicating his life to standing up now, when it counts?

as to the rest of these, frankly, i believe these people, more or less, but we are only hearing one side of the story. My guess is that they were targeted; but at least they are manning up, and following through. So, i would like to hear the resolution of these cases, because after all, that is what court is for.

so i don't think it would be right of me to make any kind of judgement here, except to say that in the first case, that of the fire chief, i am now suspicious, not sympathetic. I do empathize with all of them, but i detect that we are dancing around the bush of Vampirella, and you have just found some cases where "others" happen to be in the wrong, from a moral pov--at least i hope so, even if Fire Chief has me wondering.

But this does not alter the fact that no one seems able to answer me when i ask "how is Vampirella's appearance supposed to alter my treatment of her?" from which, let's be honest, all of this other confusion now stems.

Cochran v. City of Atlanta

The city and mayor of Atlanta terminated the employment of Fire Chief Kelvin Cochran because of his Christian faith and beliefs. Mayor Kasim Reed (Muslim) first suspended Cochran for 30 days and announced that he would have to complete “sensitivity training” after activists who don’t agree with the fire chief’s Christian views on sex complained about a men’s devotional book Cochran had written on his personal time. Biblical sexual morality is mentioned only briefly in the 162-page book. After an investigation that included interviews with employees found Cochran did not discriminate against anyone, the mayor fired him anyway – citing as his basis, ironically, the need to tolerate diverse views.

More information: adfmedia.org/News/PRDetail/9520

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I didn't catch my typo above in time - ACLU. The lack of comments aren't something I am concerned about. The views show me that at least 268 people, thus far, have possibly clicked on the link and listened.

I am glad you enjoyed it. I liked the testimony by Blaine Adamson at the 43:00 marker, and it's interesting that what he said wasn't included in the transcript:

Mollie Hemingway: WE ARE ALL LEARNING ABOUT THESE CASES AND ALL WONDERING WHEN THIS FIGHT MIGHT COME TO US. YOU GUYS ARE ALREADY EXPERIENCING THE FIGHT. BUT HOW DO YOU HAVE THE STRENGTH TO TAKE THIS ON. IT WOULD BE SO MUCH EASIER TO SUCCUMB AND YOU'RE NOT DOING THAT. I'M CURIOUS WHERE THE STRENGTH IS COMING FROM.

Blaine Adamson: DEFINITELY THE RELATIONSHIP WITH JESUS CHRIST. MY LIFE AND MY WORSHIP OF GOD IS NOT JUST CONFINED TO A BUILDING. >> .

This is the part they left out:

"It's how I live my life. It's how I love my wife. It's the TV shows I watch. It's how I work. It's how I treat my neighbors. All of that is an act of worship. And, so, if at the end of the day, God can look at me and say, 'Well done my good and faithful servant'... I mean that is the sort of the hope of the journey that I am on. And it's really the Word of God, I feel like...just...you talk about God preparing you for something...and just the more you read the scriptures and you get the truth of God, it's kind of like this guide that keeps you in the right...because society's views are going to shift and change, but God's doesn't change. And so, He's my strength. He's what I go back to and say, 'Okay God, whatever it takes. Whatever the cost is, I'm okay with it because my hope is in you, not in man."

Good words!!!

Wow, very powerful words!

And re the fire chief who got fired by the Muslim mayor... that is something you are not going to hear in mainstream news at all.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Wow, very powerful words!

And re the fire chief who got fired by the Muslim mayor... that is something you are not going to hear in mainstream news at all.

They are powerful. I was especially struck by him saying, "It's how I live my life. It's how I love my wife. It's the TV shows I watch. It's how I work. It's how I treat my neighbors. All of that is an act of worship."

Notice he says his act of worshiping God also involves what he watches on TV, which I am sure includes any movies. He has thought about what is entailed in calling yourself a Christian. Just really liked how he said that.

As for Mayor Kasim Reed - if you have ever had the opportunity to listen to him speak or be interviewed, he is extremely intelligent and articulates himself very, very well.

I had understood that he was Muslim, but I read this on Wikipedia. The article also states that his religion is Methodist.

Reed was born in Plainfield, New Jersey,[1] but his family moved to Fulton County, Georgia, when he was an infant.[2] He was born and raised in a United Methodist household. His father had considered converting to Islam around the time Kasim was born, during the early years of desegregation, and named his son Mohammed Kasim, to the consternation of his minister grandfather.

I can't recall the exchange (it was years ago, and either McCain or Romney were running for POTUS) where I received the impression that he was a Muslim. It wasn't an article stating that he was. It was an interview he was involved in and something said gave me the impression. So long ago, I can't recall clearly.