Are we to repent for our ancestors past sins?

[Wilsonwas]

Under the law sin was only pushed forward after sacrifice, not tossed away. A generation that followed its fathers into idolatry would repent for itself for following the sins of the fathers.

If repentance for fathers sins were true, I would be unable to repent of my fathers sin, as I will never know who he is.

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by derAlte

This is an interesting topic for discussion. As I live in the Great American West, I have constant interaction with Native Americans who possess varying amounts of bitterness over how their ancestors were treated by European Americans over the last four centuries. I have been told "you stole our land." I have no recollection of stealing anyone's land and find it hard to assume responsibility for the actions of past generations over which I have no control. In truth, I am VERY sorry their families had to endure the very real genocide to which their ancestors were subjected. But to assign responsibility to me seems a bit much. These Native folks don't know my family history. They don't know if my family were the ones responsible for the crimes committed against their families. To assume my white skin makes me responsible is racism plain and simple.

this land was a wasteland of savage beasts killing each other, it didnt belong to anyone and some that claimed to own it sold portions of it for beads and a few dollars. even now crime rates and gangs among Indians are high. They had no cities, building, nothing until "white man" came along and would still have nothing but tribal wars today if it had not been for the non native invasive Americans.

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by derAlte

This is an interesting topic for discussion. As I live in the Great American West, I have constant interaction with Native Americans who possess varying amounts of bitterness over how their ancestors were treated by European Americans over the last four centuries. I have been told "you stole our land." I have no recollection of stealing anyone's land and find it hard to assume responsibility for the actions of past generations over which I have no control. In truth, I am VERY sorry their families had to endure the very real genocide to which their ancestors were subjected. But to assign responsibility to me seems a bit much. These Native folks don't know my family history. They don't know if my family were the ones responsible for the crimes committed against their families. To assume my white skin makes me responsible is racism plain and simple.

Having grown up and lived around Native Americans, there was never any issue with this. Where you did run into this was on the reservations, where there was little hope for any improvement in their situation.
What they refuse to acknowledge is that their tribe "stole" the land from another one, before the arrival of the white man. And much of the land was unusable before their arrival.
Which does not pardon the way they were treated or excuse the way my ancestors were evicted from land they properly owned, by Andrew Jackson.
But, we can only work out our own salvation, not that of our ancestors.

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

this land was a wasteland of savage beasts killing each other, it didnt belong to anyone and some that claimed to own it sold portions of it for beads and a few dollars. even now crime rates and gangs among Indians are high. They had no cities, building, nothing until "white man" came along and would still have nothing but tribal wars today if it had not been for the non native invasive Americans.

Racist

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by berkeley

Racist

race has nothing to do with it.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by berkeley

Racist

Just ask Jack Chick

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by derAlte

This is an interesting topic for discussion. As I live in the Great American West, I have constant interaction with Native Americans who possess varying amounts of bitterness over how their ancestors were treated by European Americans over the last four centuries. I have been told "you stole our land." I have no recollection of stealing anyone's land and find it hard to assume responsibility for the actions of past generations over which I have no control. In truth, I am VERY sorry their families had to endure the very real genocide to which their ancestors were subjected. But to assign responsibility to me seems a bit much. These Native folks don't know my family history. They don't know if my family were the ones responsible for the crimes committed against their families. To assume my white skin makes me responsible is racism plain and simple.

My people were over in Sicily, with olive oil and tomato sauce. Sister B's people were in Greece with feta cheese and roasted lamb.

Your white skin makes you feel guilty?

Are you Jewish?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Deuteronomy 24:16, 2 Kings 14:6, 2 Chronicles 25:4,
Jeremiah 31:29-30, and Ezekiel 18:20.

[derAlte]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

My people were over in Sicily, with olive oil and tomato sauce. Sister B's people were in Greece with feta cheese and roasted lamb.

Your white skin makes you feel guilty?

Are you Jewish?

As an ex-history teacher, I have studied this country's past extensively as well as my own family history. I do not feel remotely guilty about my European skin although certain branches of my family have participated in some less-than-savory important historical events. The relationships in my own family illustrates what complicated histories many Americans possess personally, which makes it difficult to assign guilt.

My first European ancestor in America tried to come from England in 1609 but was shipwrecked on the island of Bermuda where he was nearly executed for mutiny. The events of this shipwreck is thought to have influenced Shakespeare to write The Tempest. My ancestor eventually made it to Jamestown but later returned to England upon learning of the death of his wife. In 1620, he came to America again on the Mayflower. When the Native American Tesquantum made contact with the Pilgrims, he stayed at my ancestor's home. So my family has had dealings with Native Americans from the very first years of our time on this continent. These relations started out positive. There were some negative encounters as well.

I had a cousin who was scalped at Deerfield, Massachusetts in the late 1600s. Another branch of my family were involved in the Wyoming Massacre in northeast Pennsylvania during the Revolutionary War. One of my many great-grandfathers was the last survivor dying at the age of 95 in 1868. He vividly remembered the Mohawk Indians painting his face with warpaint and letting his family live to escape back to New York State.

Things got complicated when my son married a Native American girl who has given my wife and me a very handsome grandson. My grandson's ancestors survived the Sand Creek Massacre on 29 November 1864 at the hands of the Colorado Militia. None of my white ancestors were anywhere near this event. My paternal great-great grandfather was serving in the Prussian army at the fortress of Ehrenbreitstein on the Rhine River about this time, not coming to America until 1867.

That family profited from the removal of my grandson's Native ancestors in Nebraska when they homesteaded not far from the North Platte River in 1880. Other branches descended from poor Germans desperate to own their own land also profited from the Native American's loss. Both sides of my grandson's family would probably spin in their graves if they knew their descendant carries an Alpine Celtic Y-DNA chromosome signature from my side of the family along with the autosomal DNA of Plains Indians, including close relatives of Crazy Horse of the Ogallala Sioux, Pawnees, Arapahos, Jicarilla Apaches, Utes, Navajos, and Cherokees. The little guy also descends in a direct line from a daughter of the Emperor Moctezuma II of the Aztecs from my wife.

So should my grandson use his Arapaho heel to stomp on this Germanic big toe for homesteading on the Plains? Should he use his Aztec thumb to pinch his Spanish cheek for conquering Mexico? Should he use his Sephardic Jewish fingernail to scratch his Andalusian shoulder for driving them out of Iberia over to Northern Mexico in the first place? I haven't even mentioned the grudge he could hold against his Norman ancestors for conquering his Anglo-Saxon ancestors in 1066.

Best to just forgive it all and not dwell on ancient injustices. Could be rather painful.

And no, I'm not Jewish.

[Aquila]

There are two perspectives. One is that we're all individuals. The other is that we are living extensions of our ancestors both biologically, socially, and even spiritually. Almost like individual cells of a single organism. We can greatly benefit or suffer from our ancestors misdeeds. And so the effect and reality of their actions continue to live on today to some degree in every one of our lives.

God seems to see mankind as a whole. For the majority of human history, from Adam himself, descendants have born the sin, and righteousness, of their ancestors.

I think when we speak of ancestral sin we can't see it as though we're personally responsible, because we're not. However we should acknowledge that what we have and what we are can often be traced back to their decisions and actions. So, we do well to confess the sins of our ancestors, and end any sin that has been perpetuated down through our generations (idolatry, incest, domestic violence, alcoholism, gambling, coursing, criminal enterprise, dehumanization, racism, womanizing, prostitution, etc.).

Coming clean be with God, as priests of our family lines, bringing generations of sin and offense before him, taking responsibility for making necessary changes, and righting wrongs, if at all possible, will transform our communities and our nation.

No we are not guilty, but we can set things right.

One great sin in our society is racism. It's alive and well because of the beliefs, actions, misinformation, lies, and biases of our ancestors.

We can repent of racism and end it in our lives, if we haven't already.

It's not like we're personally guilty. It's just taking responsibility for our ancestors actions, and making restitution where possible.