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  #31  
Old 12-06-2018, 09:42 AM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Why Do We Have Christmas Trees?

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Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness View Post
No one is worshiping Idols or pagan gods when they celebrate Christmas. And to through that motive on everyone that has a Christmas tree is just an accusation thats not true.

If someone doesn't want a tree great, but if someone does great, no need to place a false motive on them.
Negligent idolatry. Yes, it's a thing.
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  #32  
Old 12-06-2018, 09:56 AM
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Re: Why Do We Have Christmas Trees?

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Although most of the traditions common to Christ's Mass (Feast of the Holy Nativity) are pagan in origin, the real issue is the recognition and observance of a definitely pagan festival. December 25 was indisputably the birthday festival of Mithra aka Sol Invictus, the Sun God (known as BAAL in Canaan). That alone should be enough for Christians to abandon it.
Seems many can't see the forest for the trees. The main issue isn't having a tree in your living room. Let's suppose ALL YOU DID for Christmas was go to church, read the Bible, have prayer, and "fellowship". No trees, no gifts, no Santa Claus, no eggnog, no yule tide cheer. Just straight up "Jesus is the reason".

It's still paganism.

When Israel made a golden calf, what was declared? "Here's your Elohim." And what did Aaron say in response? "Tomorrow is a Feast unto Jehovah." The people did what pagans always do, and the religious leaders told them it was "for the Lord". Nothing new under the sun.
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  #33  
Old 12-06-2018, 09:59 AM
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Re: Why Do We Have Christmas Trees?

Exodus 31:13 KJV Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Exodus 13:6-10 KJV Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, and in the seventh day shall be a feast to the LORD. (7) Unleavened bread shall be eaten seven days; and there shall no leavened bread be seen with thee, neither shall there be leaven seen with thee in all thy quarters. (8) And thou shalt shew thy son in that day, saying, This is done because of that which the LORD did unto me when I came forth out of Egypt. (9) And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD'S law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt. (10) Thou shalt therefore keep this ordinance in his season from year to year.
Holy Days and religious festivals are a sign, or token, of which god you really worship. If you are keeping the holy days of ancient pagan demons, THAT'S WHO YOU ARE WORSHIPPING. If you have been baptised into Christ, and yet you keep the holy days of satan, you are committing SPIRITUAL FORNICATION, HARLOTRY, and ADULTERY against your Saviour.

The Sabbaths of God were to be FOR A SIGN "upon the hand and ... between the eyes" (forehead) of God's people. It was a mark of ownership, covenant, fealty, loyalty, and belonging.

What do you think the following verses are referring to?
Revelation 13:16-17 KJV (16) And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: (17) And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Revelation 14:9-11 KJV And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, (10) The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: (11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
The beast institutes false worship among the nations, and causes them to be marked in the hand and the forehead. John is seeing in vision a spiritual reality concerning the world and its inhabitants. Just as God has a "mark" on His people, in their foreheads and their hands, so does the beast, satan's earthly power and influence. Just as God's mark includes His Holy Sabbaths, the beast's mark includes his "holy days". Holy days, or religious festivals, repeating observances of set times, observed in commemoration of religious ideas and concepts, intended to pass on religious ideas from one generation to the next, are part of the MARK, either of God... or of satan.

Which one do YOU have?
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  #34  
Old 12-06-2018, 10:05 AM
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Re: Why Do We Have Christmas Trees?

Exodus 32:4-5 KJV And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. (5) And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.
The calf was a representation of the elohim that had brought them up from Egypt and brought them to Sinai. A feast to YHVH was proclaimed for the morrow. Clearly, they worshipped the golden calf as YHVH Elohim.

Notice, they seemed to have the idea that YHVH was plural, and not singular/unipersonal. Hence, the insistence by Moses that "YHVH is ONE" (Deut 6:4).
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  #35  
Old 12-06-2018, 10:06 AM
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Re: Why Do We Have Christmas Trees?

The golden calf incident shows several things:
  • People can be guilty of sinful idolatry while believing they are worshipping Jehovah (syncretism).
  • Syncretism is a key factor or quality of pagan worship.
  • Syncretism is a natural result of rejecting God's specific messengers in favour of self-directed worship.
  • Syncretism is an abomination to God.

In other words, mixing pagan practices in with the worship of Jehovah, and thinking it is acceptable to Jehovah, is a common practice, is the result of rejecting strict adherance to the Revelation of God, and is despised by God.
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  #36  
Old 12-06-2018, 10:07 AM
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Re: Why Do We Have Christmas Trees?

Barnes' Notes on the verse in question:

In the next verse, Aaron appears to speak of the calf as if it was a representative of Yahweh - “Tomorrow is a feast to the Lord.” The Israelites did not, it should be noted, worship a living Mnevis, or Apis, having a proper name, but only the golden type of the animal. The mystical notions connected with the ox by the Egyptian priests may have possessed their minds, and, when expressed in this modified and less gross manner, may have been applied to the Lord, who had really delivered them out of the hand of the Egyptians.
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  #37  
Old 12-06-2018, 10:08 AM
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Re: Why Do We Have Christmas Trees?

1 Kings 12:26-33 And Jeroboam said in his heart, Now shall the kingdom return to the house of David: (27) If this people go up to do sacrifice in the house of the LORD at Jerusalem, then shall the heart of this people turn again unto their lord, even unto Rehoboam king of Judah, and they shall kill me, and go again to Rehoboam king of Judah. (28) Whereupon the king took counsel, and made two calves of gold, and said unto them, It is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem: behold thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. (29) And he set the one in Bethel, and the other put he in Dan. (30) And this thing became a sin: for the people went to worship before the one, even unto Dan. (31) And he made an house of high places, and made priests of the lowest of the people, which were not of the sons of Levi. (32) And Jeroboam ordained a feast in the eighth month, on the fifteenth day of the month, like unto the feast that is in Judah, and he offered upon the altar. So did he in Bethel, sacrificing unto the calves that he had made: and he placed in Bethel the priests of the high places which he had made. (33) So he offered upon the altar which he had made in Bethel the fifteenth day of the eighth month, even in the month which he had devised of his own heart; and ordained a feast unto the children of Israel: and he offered upon the altar, and burnt incense.
What was the "sin of Jeroboam, whereby he made Israel to sin"?

He altered the divinely ordained worship of God. He did not call Israel to worship the deities of Canaan. Rather, he introduced innovations into the worship of Jehovah.

These innovations had four characteristics:
  1. Doing what God had explicitly forbidden.
  2. Doing what God had never commanded.
  3. Not doing what God had explicitly commanded.
  4. Doing what was invented by man.

God had forbidden the use of graven images in worship. Jeroboam introduced (in imitation of Aaron's sin at Sinai) the use of graven images in the worship of Jehovah.

God had never commanded any feast or holy day in the eighth month. Jeroboam introduced a non-Biblical holiday tied to worship of Jehovah.

God had commanded a feast to be kept in the seventh month. Jeroboam induced the people to abandon the divinely ordained seventh month feast as part of their worship.

Jeroboam's innovations were the product of his own devising, they were human inventions introduced as the means of worshipping God. Interestingly, his human inventions mirrored the common pagan religious practices of the surrounding heathen nations. When man begins to invent ways to worship God in place of the divinely ordained way, he typically falls into the same patterns of worship found in heathen paganism. Thus, the sin of Jeroboam is the sin of altering Biblical worship so that it imitates and mirrors pagan devil worship, which is exactly what Christmas does.
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  #38  
Old 12-06-2018, 10:30 AM
Apostolic1ness Apostolic1ness is online now
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Re: Why Do We Have Christmas Trees?

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Negligent idolatry. Yes, it's a thing.
Can one be in Idolatry an possess the Holy Ghost?
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  #39  
Old 12-06-2018, 12:08 PM
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Re: Why Do We Have Christmas Trees?

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Seems many can't see the forest for the trees. The main issue isn't having a tree in your living room. Let's suppose ALL YOU DID for Christmas was go to church, read the Bible, have prayer, and "fellowship". No trees, no gifts, no Santa Claus, no eggnog, no yule tide cheer. Just straight up "Jesus is the reason".

It's still paganism.

When Israel made a golden calf, what was declared? "Here's your Elohim." And what did Aaron say in response? "Tomorrow is a Feast unto Jehovah." The people did what pagans always do, and the religious leaders told them it was "for the Lord". Nothing new under the sun.
Gee. My aunt was born on December 25. I guess it's idolatry then for her birthday to be celebrated since December 25 has pagan significance.
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  #40  
Old 12-06-2018, 12:09 PM
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Re: Why Do We Have Christmas Trees?

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
1 Kings 12:26-33 And Jeroboam said in his heart, Now shall the kingdom return to the house of David: (27) If this people go up to do sacrifice in the house of the LORD at Jerusalem, then shall the heart of this people turn again unto their lord, even unto Rehoboam king of Judah, and they shall kill me, and go again to Rehoboam king of Judah. (28) Whereupon the king took counsel, and made two calves of gold, and said unto them, It is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem: behold thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. (29) And he set the one in Bethel, and the other put he in Dan. (30) And this thing became a sin: for the people went to worship before the one, even unto Dan. (31) And he made an house of high places, and made priests of the lowest of the people, which were not of the sons of Levi. (32) And Jeroboam ordained a feast in the eighth month, on the fifteenth day of the month, like unto the feast that is in Judah, and he offered upon the altar. So did he in Bethel, sacrificing unto the calves that he had made: and he placed in Bethel the priests of the high places which he had made. (33) So he offered upon the altar which he had made in Bethel the fifteenth day of the eighth month, even in the month which he had devised of his own heart; and ordained a feast unto the children of Israel: and he offered upon the altar, and burnt incense.
What was the "sin of Jeroboam, whereby he made Israel to sin"?

He altered the divinely ordained worship of God. He did not call Israel to worship the deities of Canaan. Rather, he introduced innovations into the worship of Jehovah.

These innovations had four characteristics:
  1. Doing what God had explicitly forbidden.
  2. Doing what God had never commanded.
  3. Not doing what God had explicitly commanded.
  4. Doing what was invented by man.

God had forbidden the use of graven images in worship. Jeroboam introduced (in imitation of Aaron's sin at Sinai) the use of graven images in the worship of Jehovah.

God had never commanded any feast or holy day in the eighth month. Jeroboam introduced a non-Biblical holiday tied to worship of Jehovah.

God had commanded a feast to be kept in the seventh month. Jeroboam induced the people to abandon the divinely ordained seventh month feast as part of their worship.

Jeroboam's innovations were the product of his own devising, they were human inventions introduced as the means of worshipping God. Interestingly, his human inventions mirrored the common pagan religious practices of the surrounding heathen nations. When man begins to invent ways to worship God in place of the divinely ordained way, he typically falls into the same patterns of worship found in heathen paganism. Thus, the sin of Jeroboam is the sin of altering Biblical worship so that it imitates and mirrors pagan devil worship, which is exactly what Christmas does.

A tree is not a graven image. People do not put them in their homes in any way to celebrate paganism. Something that people are not even thinking about certainly cannot be thought of as being celebrated.
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