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  #31  
Old 09-01-2019, 07:14 AM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Another Reason NOT to have guns in Church.

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Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
What if this had not been a pastor's wife but just some lady in any neighborhood? By Monterrey's logic, nobody should have a gun at home to defend themselves because someone might be mistaken for an intruder and shot. "Message of peace", would apply in every home.
So, what are you saying about people who won't have a gun in their home?

I've been mugged twice in my neighborhood. Borth times right down the block. How would the outcome change if I had a gun? My Cannondale bicycle blocked most of the kicks to my head and face. Yet, the attack was from behind and I had the bicycle. I mean no disrespect, but how many movies do you all watch?

Gun theory takes more than a gun and ammo. It takes training of the mind, and being tactically ready at any given moment. While PawPaw, while laying in bed, may be ready to swing a 45 over MeeMaw to shoot an attacker dead. MeeMaw may not have those capabilities.

This is a bloody mess, and while media sacres the Holy Ghost out of us, we really need to get some advice from Jesus on what we should do.
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  #32  
Old 09-01-2019, 05:46 PM
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Re: Another Reason NOT to have guns in Church.

One nutty situation well outside the bell-curve of statistical normalcy is not something upon which to gender a proliferate precedent.
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  #33  
Old 09-01-2019, 10:01 PM
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Re: Another Reason NOT to have guns in Church.

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Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
One nutty situation well outside the bell-curve of statistical normalcy is not something upon which to gender a proliferate precedent.
Yup. As I said if we should not have guns because of some nut case preachers wife who wants to shoot a Youth Pastor's wife over a t shirt then we all certainly should give up owning and driving cars over drunk drivers killing folks with cars every year.
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"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.

"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.

"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."

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  #34  
Old 09-01-2019, 10:06 PM
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Re: Another Reason NOT to have guns in Church.

In a little less than two weeks I will be at the Vatican. If I run into the Pope I will ask him what we should do about security in church. Which would be interesting since he has pontificated (pun intended) that the US should have open borders while his city state has very high walls with security cameras every twenty or feet or so.
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"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.

"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.

"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."

Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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  #35  
Old 09-03-2019, 01:38 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: Another Reason NOT to have guns in Church.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
So, what are you saying about people who won't have a gun in their home?

I've been mugged twice in my neighborhood. Borth times right down the block. How would the outcome change if I had a gun? My Cannondale bicycle blocked most of the kicks to my head and face. Yet, the attack was from behind and I had the bicycle. I mean no disrespect, but how many movies do you all watch?

Gun theory takes more than a gun and ammo. It takes training of the mind, and being tactically ready at any given moment. While PawPaw, while laying in bed, may be ready to swing a 45 over MeeMaw to shoot an attacker dead. MeeMaw may not have those capabilities.

This is a bloody mess, and while media sacres the Holy Ghost out of us, we really need to get some advice from Jesus on what we should do.
I am simply saying that Monterey's logic could be applied anywhere, not just at a church. And I am not sure what bloody mess you refer to. The only bloody mess I see is from those who were not armed and thus defenseless. Yes, we need to ask Jesus what kind of gun to buy.
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  #36  
Old 09-03-2019, 01:58 PM
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Re: Another Reason NOT to have guns in Church.

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Yes, we need to ask Jesus what kind of gun to buy.
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  #37  
Old 09-04-2019, 06:38 AM
Apostolic1ness Apostolic1ness is offline
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Re: Another Reason NOT to have guns in Church.

I pack a 40 cal s&w shield, My wife has a hammer-less 38 special revolver, There is a 12 gauge within reach of my side of the bed "which is the side closest to the bedroom door".
I have never been in a safety meeting at the church but I know there are several guns floating around at any given service.
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  #38  
Old 09-04-2019, 05:42 PM
Monterrey Monterrey is offline
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Re: Another Reason NOT to have guns in Church.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness View Post
I pack a 40 cal s&w shield, My wife has a hammer-less 38 special revolver, There is a 12 gauge within reach of my side of the bed "which is the side closest to the bedroom door".
I have never been in a safety meeting at the church but I know there are several guns floating around at any given service.
So do you feel safer now that you have those guns by you?
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  #39  
Old 09-04-2019, 06:12 PM
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Re: Another Reason NOT to have guns in Church.

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
https://theonomyresources.blogspot.c...dition-of.html

"From "The Sabbath in Puritan New England"

For many years after the settlement of New England the Puritans, even in outwardly tranquil times, went armed to meeting; and to sanctify the Sunday gun-loading they were expressly forbidden to fire off their charges at any object on that day save an Indian or a wolf, their two "greatest inconveniencies."

...

"In 1640 it was ordered in Massachusetts that in every township the attendants at church should carry a "competent number of peeces, fixed and compleat with powder and shot and swords every Lords-day to the meeting-house;" one armed man from each household was then thought advisable and necessary for public safety. In 1642 six men with muskets and powder and shot were thought sufficient for protection for each church. In Connecticut similar mandates were issued, and as the orders were neglected "by divers persones," a law was passed in 1643 that each offender should forfeit twelve pence for each offence. In 1644 a fourth part of the "trayned hand" was obliged to come armed each Sabbath, and the sentinels were ordered to keep their matches constantly lighted for use in their match-locks. They were also commanded to wear armor, which consisted of "coats basted with cotton-wool, and thus made defensive against Indian arrows." In 1650 so much dread and fear were felt of Sunday attacks from the red men that the Sabbath-Day guard was doubled in number. In 1692, the Connecticut Legislature ordered one fifth of the soldiers in each town to come armed to each meeting, and that nowhere should be present as a guard at time of public worship fewer than eight soldiers and a sergeant."

...

"In Concord, New Hampshire, the men, who all came armed to meeting, stacked their muskets around a post in the middle of the church, while the honored pastor, who was a good shot and owned the best gun in the settlement, preached with his treasured weapon in the pulpit by his side, ready from his post of vantage to blaze away at any red man whom he saw sneaking without, or to lead, if necessary, his congregation to battle. The church in York, Maine, until the year 1746, felt it necessary to retain the custom of carrying arms to the meeting-house, so plentiful and so aggressive were Maine Indians.

Not only in the time of Indian wars were armed men seen in the meeting-house, but on June 17, 1775, the Provincial Congress recommended that the men "within twenty miles of the sea-coast carry their arms and ammunition with them to meeting on the Sabbath and other days when they meet for public worship." And on many a Sabbath and Lecture Day, during the years of war that followed, were proved the wisdom and foresight of that suggestion.

The men in those old days of the seventeenth century, when in constant dread of attacks by Indians, always rose when the services were ended and left the house before the women and children, thus making sure the safe exit of the latter. This custom prevailed from habit until a late date in many churches in New England, all the men, after the benediction and the exit of the parson, walking out in advance of the women. So also the custom of the men always sitting at the "head" or door of the pew arose from the early necessity of their always being ready to seize their arms and rush unobstructed to fight."

Alice Morse Earle, The Sabbath in Puritan New England (NY: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1891), 19-25.
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  #40  
Old 09-04-2019, 06:15 PM
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Re: Another Reason NOT to have guns in Church.

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Puritans getting attacked by the natives?
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