Pastors. How to paralyze the Hebrew Roots doctrine

[Michael The Disciple]

Dom

But since we have been so Judaized we knee jerk react and say "well, His name had to be Hebrew."

I'm flabbergasted. Yea to actually think Jesus who was a Jew would be given a Hebrew name!

YIKES!

Yea who would ever reason something such as that!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

So according to this logic that we all just use the name in our language then what if a Messianic Jew who was raised calling the Lord Yeshua wanted to ALSO call him Jesus? Would he not then be in error or sin? See where this goes?

My thinking would be that yes whatever groups blaspheme the name of Jesus and say you must keep the law are heretics.

But AGAIN where does that leave Apostolics who use the law to preach various highly important (to them) commandments? Would they not be as guilty as anyone else who teach the law of Moses must be kept by Christians?

Brother Michael, Messianic Jew? What is a Messianic Jew? A Jew who leaves one synagogue without Jesus, to walk into another synagogue to call Him yeshua? Again, the New Testament is all in Greek, since day one. The whole hub bub about switching the name is a new phenomenon, brought on by Rabbis since the 70s. Listen, when you first walked into church you called Jesus, Jesus? Why because your Bible called Him Jesus. The early Apostles and Christians taught out of a Greek Old Testament, which is older than any LXX we have today. Also Aramaic targums, Hebrew manuscripts far older than the Masorah. The painful truth is this, Apostolic churches are teaching from the Old Testament things they see in the New. Yet, a good number of them don't run off to sit at the feet of the Lubavitcher Rebbe (thank you Esaias) like he was the peep stone in Joe Smith's top hat. Blaspheming the name of Jesus would be attacking His name, and calling it the name of a pig. The name which means Hail Zeus. You as well as I have heard them all. Yet, the fact is the fact, we only have a Greek New Testament, that Greek New Testament records the name of our Christ as Jesus. I'm real sorry, but Mary called Him Jesus. How do I know? It was recorded in Greek, by a Hellenized Judean. To write these documents to be sent out to all the Diaspora Judeans in all the corners of the Hellenized Latinized Roman empire.

The name of Jesus outlived any Aramaic, or Hebrew version. Even after the advent of the Masorah in 600 A.D.

The Christians throughout the ages continued to call Him Jesus.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I'm flabbergasted. Yea to actually think Jesus who was a Jew would be given a Hebrew name!

YIKES!

Yea who would ever reason something such as that!

Not as flabbergasted as I am that you have an entire Greek New Testament which has not the name Yeshua, but the name Jesus. yet, still insist on calling him Yeshua? The possibility that His name was taken out of a Greek LXX and given to Him at His birth is staggering. Why? Because the Angel said in Greek to Mary to call His name JESUS. No, the whole Yeshua phenomenon is a Johnny come lately, and Christians in times past, weren't having this debates. the Rabbi just sits back and throws his head back and laughs when we say that our New Testament got His name wrong.

Now, that's enough to flabbergast everyone.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

So on the basis of the very, very, few (compared to the great number of people who use Yeshua) you would say they are all just one step away from renouncing Christianity?

You would not make any difference between many who call Jesus "Yeshua" and those who embrace the false aspects of this movement? You see them all the same?

Again, the whole hullabaloo about Yeshua is new, and the Hebrew Roots movement is a stepping stone right into Rabbinical Judaism. Rabbi Tovia Singer, Outreach Judaism, and Jews for Judaism is proof that Hebrew Roots are the candy cigarettes which lead to smoking the real thing.

[TJJJ]

Bunch of these folks in Kentucky. Google carl tichenor.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

So according to this logic that we all just use the name in our language then what if a Messianic Jew who was raised calling the Lord Yeshua wanted to ALSO call him Jesus? Would he not then be in error or sin? See where this goes?

Did God preserve the Saviour's name as "Yeshua"? Or Jesus?

The world doesn't get offended if you go around using the name "Yeshua". but they sure do get upset when you try to use the name JESUS.

A "Messianic Jew" would most likely have grown up speaking English to begin with. When I speak Spanish with people who speak Spanish I use Jesucristo. I don't expect them to say "Jesus" in the middle of their Spanish sentences or prayers.

Most people I've seen who like "Yeshua" also like "EloHeem", "HaShem", and pretend to call the bible books (including the NT epistles) by Hebrew sounding names. "In the gospel of Mattiyahu..." They call Paul "Shaul", speak of the "Revelation given to Yochanon", and also tend to wear yarmulkas and "prayer shawls". Oh, and yes they like their tzitzit. Are tsitzit biblical? Sure. but making sure it's tied according to kaballastic numerology regarding the "Shemhamforash" and the 613 mitzvot is anything BUT Biblical. They like "midrash" instead of old fashioned Christian hermeneutics. Many will DENY THEY ARE CHRISTIANS, and will deny they practice "Christianity", preferring instead to call themselves Netzariym, or Messianics, practicing Messianic Torah-keeping. So they say.

Some of them are opposed to Rabbinicalism, and Talmud, but the majority love them some Abodah Zarah, Mishna, Gemara, and Zohar. In order to study Torah they go to the Rabbis. And after going to the Rabbis for awhile, many of them leave "Yeshua" altogether and go full blown Orthodox Jew, or "Gentile Noahide".

It's pretentious. It's "I wanna be a Jew" writ large, mostly by people who have no sense of who they are to begin with. You've seen those suburban white kids with the baggy pants, wife-beater t-shirts, and the ball caps with the flat brim? Wearing lots of goofy bling, got their swagger on, talking Ebonics? Blaring Eminem or Ice Cube from the 18 inch subwoofers in their cheap Mazdas with the tacky green and purple paint jobs? Yeah, those guys? The Hebrew Roots Movement is the ecclesiastical version of those guys.

Don't be one of those guys.

[Aquila]

I'm American. I read an English Bible. Jesus is His name in English. Pretending to speak like a Jew, act, and worship like a Jew, feels fake to me. Sometimes, to me, the Hebrew roots people seem to be dressing up and pretending like they're a people that they're not. It's kind of like a Hebraic Halloween party. Lol

[Aquila]

This thread also reminds me of something I shared in a post about my talk with God. I'll share here for reference:

Originally Posted by Aquila

It's been said that, "Just a little talk with Jesus makes it right." Well, I tried this. And what happened has left me astounded. I was speaking to the LORD in prayer recently I began to ask Him, "Why are we so divided?", and, "What must I do to be holy?" And this is the message that I felt burning in my heart so hot that I had to simply type it out as the power overwhelmed me… (I paraphrase in that it all came as a block of emotions to my spirit... not necessarily words). So, here it is... my little talk with the LORD....

"Why are we so divided?"
"What must I do to be holy?"

My child, I will tell you why you are all so divided. It is your religions. They are not of me. Each of you has a list. A list of do’s and don’ts. And each of you think that I authored your respective lists. Baptists have their list, Catholics have their lists, Pentecostals have their lists, Methodists have their lists, Lutherans have their lists, Charismatics have their lists, Messianics have their lists, Episcopals have their lists… each list is different. I’m not a God of confusion. Each list is a doctrine of man. Some say you must keep the Ten Commandments that I delivered to Moses to give to my people. Some of you expand upon these and add feast days, Sabbaths, dietary regulations, linguistic nuances of eccentricity wherein you think you are shown to be wise, yet you are looking foolish in your conceits. You want to be so much like my people… but not like me. You fail to realize… I’m the eternal, the constant, the source; the Alpha, the Omega, the beginning, the ending, the all in all, the great I AM that I AM… I’m not Catholic, Protestant, or Evangelical… neither am I Jewish. I’m GOD. Still some of you have codified my teachings into a strict body of church law in which you seek to please me by changing your “behavior”… but not your “being”. Teachings of mine were for spiritual development, they were not intended to be turned into dry do’s and don’ts to maintain a religious status quo. Then some of you codified the methods with which I addressed issues in Israel or the first generation of churches... making them “commandments” instead of seeing the spirit behind the reasoning. A reasoning that endures in any context, be it time or culture. Then you added historical traditions established by various religious leaders and founders. You codified congregation structures, financial models, added liturgies, added dietary regulations, added special days of worship, added dress codes, even added prohibitions on both men and women I never required. Each of you has these LISTS! Stop trying to please me by living these man-made lists! They divide you because you measure yourselves against one another based on your respective man-made LISTS. Ask the Pharisee to list exactly what must be done to please me! Let him present his list! And suddenly you’ll see another Pharisee argue against something on the first Pharisee’s list, or seek to add something from their list to it!!! Eventually they are all squabbling over which commandments on which list has to be obeyed and which do not! Why? It is because the spirit of legalism leaves you awash in the sea of subjective personal interpretation wherein one man’s interpretation is just as good as another’s. Yet you cling to them because you think they make you “holy”. These lists don’t make you holy. What makes you Holy is… ME.

You see… I am the Vine, and you are the branches. You are called to be living extensions of me… not living extensions of the ancient nation of Israel, your given church, or your given denomination. You are called to be conformed into the image and likeness of Christ… not the image and likeness of your respective church, movement, or denomination. When you live by their LISTS… you are becoming like them… NOT like me.

And so you ask… How do I become like you? I, the LORD, shall answer you this day. Let him who has an ear, let him hear!!!...

The answer is in the very nature of my being my beloved. You see… I AM… love. When you are loving, gracious, forgiving, kind, compassionate, patient, long suffering, temperate, and giving… you are being like Me. Do you wish to fulfill “the law”??? DON’T live by it. Find its core. Find its essence. Find my reason for delivering said laws in their given contexts. You’ll discover that it is because I was teaching many different things… but the core was and always has been… MY love. Love me my child. Love me with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength. And demonstrate your love for me by loving others as yourself. If you do this you will have fulfilled the essence of MY law. If there is any other commandment ever brought to your attention, know this… it is fulfilled in this single statement, “Love thy neighbor as thyself.” In this you do no wrong… and in loving… you become like me… the one who is love itself.

So be not swayed by their LISTS. Do not be deceived by their vain and eccentric verbiage. Do not emulate a nation, a denomination, or a church. Instead… emulate Me and you will find rest for your souls. Love Me with all your being… and show me that you love Me by loving others as yourself. The only commandment I give you is this… LOVE. For love will not murder, steal, covet, slander, commit adultery, rage, revenge, or blaspheme. Love will set every day aside as holy… because love seeks to give absolute devotion every single day without end. I am not impressed with your LISTS. First, your lists all differ. And second, you don’t even keep your own lists perfectly! This makes you hypocrites of the worst kind. Why do you do this to yourselves??? Do you really think I’m IMPRESSED by anything you do? Am I impressed by any cherry picked LIST of commandments you’ve chosen to embrace… at the expense of others that you chose not to? Do you really think I’m going to open the books and judge you by each of your respective lists???! Will I judge according to dress code, hairstyles, feast days, and your labored mispronunciations of an ancient language??? Will I praise you for acting Jewish… even though if the truth were to be told… you don’t have a single drop of Hebrew blood in your body??? No. When you stand before Me… I will only seek to know two things: Did you love me with all your being? Did you seek to show your love for me by loving others as yourself? And you’ll then begin to see how your LISTS hindered you from loving your neighbors. You will see how your lusts, adulteries, thievery, slander, etc. are not rooted in failing to obey a rule on a LIST… but in your failure to LOVE. For love does no harm to the object of its affection.

So I leave you with this… become like Me. Be conformed into the very image and likeness of Jesus Christ, my beloved Son. And in this you will find true holiness. In this you will find the law of liberty… the law of LOVE. You will have discovered… ME.

This thread just reminded me of the bolded statements.

[Aquila]

Okay. The Lord woke me up after putting this on my heart. Now that I've posted this, I'm going back to sleep for a couple hours.

God bless.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Did God preserve the Saviour's name as "Yeshua"? Or Jesus?

The world doesn't get offended if you go around using the name "Yeshua". but they sure do get upset when you try to use the name JESUS.

A "Messianic Jew" would most likely have grown up speaking English to begin with. When I speak Spanish with people who speak Spanish I use Jesucristo. I don't expect them to say "Jesus" in the middle of their Spanish sentences or prayers.

Most people I've seen who like "Yeshua" also like "EloHeem", "HaShem", and pretend to call the bible books (including the NT epistles) by Hebrew sounding names. "In the gospel of Mattiyahu..." They call Paul "Shaul", speak of the "Revelation given to Yochanon", and also tend to wear yarmulkas and "prayer shawls". Oh, and yes they like their tzitzit. Are tsitzit biblical? Sure. but making sure it's tied according to kaballastic numerology regarding the "Shemhamforash" and the 613 mitzvot is anything BUT Biblical. They like "midrash" instead of old fashioned Christian hermeneutics. Many will DENY THEY ARE CHRISTIANS, and will deny they practice "Christianity", preferring instead to call themselves Netzariym, or Messianics, practicing Messianic Torah-keeping. So they say.

Some of them are opposed to Rabbinicalism, and Talmud, but the majority love them some Abodah Zarah, Mishna, Gemara, and Zohar. In order to study Torah they go to the Rabbis. And after going to the Rabbis for awhile, many of them leave "Yeshua" altogether and go full blown Orthodox Jew, or "Gentile Noahide".

It's pretentious. It's "I wanna be a Jew" writ large, mostly by people who have no sense of who they are to begin with. You've seen those suburban white kids with the baggy pants, wife-beater t-shirts, and the ball caps with the flat brim? Wearing lots of goofy bling, got their swagger on, talking Ebonics? Blaring Eminem or Ice Cube from the 18 inch subwoofers in their cheap Mazdas with the tacky green and purple paint jobs? Yeah, those guys? The Hebrew Roots Movement is the ecclesiastical version of those guys.

Don't be one of those guys.