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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #91  
Old 08-08-2008, 09:32 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

Quote:
Originally Posted by theoldpaths View Post
Heb 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
Hebrews 7:8 (ESV)
8In the one case tithes are received by mortal men, but in the other case, by one of whom it is testified that he lives.

Dynamic equivalence of text in context...

Hebrews 7:8-9 (NLT)
6 But Melchizedek, who was not a descendant of Levi, collected a tenth from Abraham. And Melchizedek placed a blessing upon Abraham, the one who had already received the promises of God. 7 And without question, the person who has the power to give a blessing is greater than the one who is blessed.
8 The priests who collect tithes are men who die, so Melchizedek is greater than they are, because we are told that he lives on. 9 In addition, we might even say that these Levites—the ones who collect the tithe—paid a tithe to Melchizedek when their ancestor Abraham paid a tithe to him.

Remember, the tithe was commanded to be brought into the temple. The tithe was agrarian in nature and it wasn't permitted to exchange it into money without adding a fifth to it. In addition there were three tithes (Levitical tithe, Festival Tithe, and every third year's Poor Tithe). Now consider also Paul's historical context. When Paul wrote this the Temple was still standing and the Jewish priesthood of the temple were still receiving tithes. Paul was using this practice to emphasize the relationship of the priesthood to Melchizedek to emphasize Christ's greatness as our priest. Jesus Christ was the subject, not the tithe.

Various researchers have found that the early church was so mobile and advanced so quickly....they typically gave all and lived communally or gave to meet specific needs. They didn't tithe. Remember the tithe was agricultural. First, one would have to ask....where would they have stored such goods? The early church was poor and primarily gathered in small groups throughout the empire in homes (church buildings weren't built until about 250-300 years later by the Trinitarians). Most didn't own land. The Law of Moses required that only land owners who had crops or herds were to tithe "of the land". According to Jewish Law all poor, gleaners, tradesmen, fishermen, etc. were exempt from the tithe. The tithe was connected to the land...not industry. The tithe died with the Jewish Temple system it supported and wasn't seen again until the Catholic Church revived the practice centuries later.

The church functioned on free will giving. If one freely determines in their own heart to give 10% of their income to the church, praise God. However, tithing isn't a law or requirement Christians are bound to keep in this age.
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  #92  
Old 08-09-2008, 02:35 PM
Jason B Jason B is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

Does anyone know of an actual debate on tithing that is posted on the internet? It seems taht those who beleive in thithing (especially as a salvational issue) never want to take up the issue with someone who doesn't? Why? No foundation. We are more than willing to challenge others on oneness, baptism in the name, etc. If a doctrine is to weak to defend, is it worth having? I think apostolics in general really need to re-examine this point.
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  #93  
Old 11-26-2008, 10:01 AM
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Justin Justin is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

I don't believe Christians should tithe. The tithe was established for the Levites whom weren't supposed to own land in order to sustain themsevles. If we are to pay "tithes" as establish under the Law, then those tithes need to be distributed as they were under the Law. How many modern Christian Pastors give some of the churches received tithes to the poor, widow, and fatherless?

Now, if you want to base your offering, which is completely biblical, off of the principle of the 10% tithe, that's okay.
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  #94  
Old 11-26-2008, 10:06 AM
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bkstokes bkstokes is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

Tithing is an OT system to support the Levites.

Question: Are there levites among us now? NO -- we are all priest to God because of Jesus Christ.

Churches do tithes today because they are seeking to build up their own kingdom.

The Apostles always talk about giving an offerring of a willing heart. These offerings were given to the leadership, so they could spend their time studying and praying. However, a large part was also given to the widows and orphans. How many churches do that today?
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No real problem exists over the use of "The Name" in everthing else done in the Church. Why then should there exist great controversy over the use of the "The Name of the Godhead" in water baptism?
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  #95  
Old 11-26-2008, 01:57 PM
LUKE2447 LUKE2447 is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gloryseeker View Post
How in the world would you even remotely relate this to judging? It is a statement of fact that I have witnessed. Those who don't follow God's pattern for giving consistently are having financial problems.

In fact, I can even broaden it. Those who are consistently late typically have financial problems. Check it out for yourself Watch those who come to church late (not once, but are typically late) you will find that they usually struggle financially.
hmmm 1+1 does = 2

Problems in finance would = minimal giving

Coming late speaks to a overall nature ,not tithing in itself. Thus they are not orderly in other areas thus not successful.

That would be like saying well people that are not very pretty or handsome have problems getting dates and people tend to ingore in part those people and think they are less successful. What genius!

People that are rude and intolerant and have poor social skills are not good leaders and managers of people.... Ya think!

Your argument has nothing to do with tithing but the nature of the person and in general success and failures that nature usually allows.
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  #96  
Old 11-26-2008, 02:01 PM
LUKE2447 LUKE2447 is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

Anyone that knows me and has read anything I have said knows I am big on the law. The thing is anyone that gives 10% of the paycheck does not fulfill tithing requirements in scripture and your pastor is probably ingorantly almost like the Levitical priests in which God was ticked at that denied the tithe to whom it belonged. If you want to point to OT scripture for tithing support better start getting ready for the big feasts in which they where used as well which was used for all the people. I know many of you gluttons will like that.
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  #97  
Old 12-02-2008, 04:22 PM
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Justin Justin is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

Only certain professions in the OT were required to give of the tithe. If the NT church is to tithe, then only those certain professions, stated in the law of the tithe, should.
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  #98  
Old 12-09-2008, 06:14 PM
NotforSale NotforSale is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

This issue is debated for for one main obvious reason: MONEY

10%, 5%, 1%, 25%, we could go on and on about what to give and what not to give. Percentage really has nothing to do with the final equation of why people go around and around with this. The fact is this, people get nervous, mad, persuaded, bribed, and do many other things for MONEY, including church folk.

The Church today has completely left the Words of Jesus behind regarding money and how to give. We put Churches and Pastors on pedistals for giving more than others. We brag from the pulpit, we have an "auction" at church meetings saying, "Who will give me 10.00, who will give me 20.00. Come on now, who will give me 100.00". Jesus completely rejected this type of giving. This has tainted our meetings with nothing but the negative, leaving visitors in doubt of our motives. Giving Churches "Trophies" for this does nothing but exalt the one with the most money, making the widow with one mite look worthless. This has created backlash from real faith, and lifts those who are not spiritually focused. Bigger is better. More means blessing. No money, no God.

I see on many of these posts, people trying to define this hotly debated issue by "Swallowing a camel, and straining at a nat". Why is it we have to be so driven to be convinced about this by historical clamor? I believe, honest prayer will easily guide people to a conclusion concerning the giver and how much to give. Quit trying to make it so difficult. Give in secret. Don't be noticed. God will press it down, shake it together, and make it run over. The cruse of oil won't fail.

When the Lord saved me from my horrible past, he saved me from wasting my substance on rioteous living. Drugs, cigarettes, booze, drained my bank account with no mercy. The Devil will take ALL, and leave nothing but ruin.

When I became truly delivered, I understood I could never give back to God what He did for me, even if I gave 100% of my money. Tithing is a matter of principle to some because they realize how much God has done for them. Most give above this because they are not "locked in" to a percentage.

We should never be guilty of keeping a few things hidden in our tent, like Achan did. This sin caused Israel to be defeated in battle with Ai, losing 36 men, all because he lusted for what belonged to God. This sin wasn't about the amount, it was what was in Achan's heart that counted. This is what mattered. He didn't look up to realize the real miracle that just took place and how God had delivered Jericho into thier hands. Money, he wanted money and he didn't care where it came from.

God help us with this. Jesus wants our ALL. Everything! We should be willing to give God the whole shabang, lock, stock and barrell. Quit fussing over the amount. The rich young ruler went away sorrowful because Jesus made it easy (but hard for him); All or nothing.

When we came to our city to build a home missions church, God quickly brought me to my knees. We found ourselves on the ropes of nothing but Him. We spent all, gave all, and we committed our lives to His work without reservation. I've learned, He gives and takes away, but Blessed be His Name. I wouldn't trade the Lord for anything nor insult Him with an amount; it's all His!

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  #99  
Old 12-09-2008, 09:31 PM
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Scott Hutchinson Scott Hutchinson is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

Anybody ever read this book ?
http://faithfulpublishing.com/tithe.html
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  #100  
Old 12-10-2008, 10:39 AM
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bkstokes bkstokes is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson View Post
Anybody ever read this book ?
http://faithfulpublishing.com/tithe.html
No Scott,

Please give me a summary.
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If ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24

Mone me, amabo te, si erro

No real problem exists over the use of "The Name" in everthing else done in the Church. Why then should there exist great controversy over the use of the "The Name of the Godhead" in water baptism?
Kevin J. Conner The Name of God p. 92
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