Romans 6 and 1 Peter 3 - DRY BAPTISM?

[thetechnologyv]

Originally Posted by mfblume

It reminds me of the other very controversial words found in 1 Cor 15.

1 Corinthians 15:29 KJV (29) Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

Baptism FOR THE DEAD in this verse, I believe, means we are baptized BECAUSE OF CHRIST'S DEATH. We are baptized into His death (Ro 6:3) because His death caused Him to resurrect. What is the purpose of baptism into the death of Jesus if there is no resurrection from the dead? If Jesus did not resurrect, then the reason for baptism's salvation is lost! Peter said baptism saves us by the resurrection of Jesus. In other words, if Jesus did not resurrect from the dead, why bother with baptism? Our purpose in being baptized is to resurrect with Jesus.

Hi mfblume,
I'm always interested to hear the opinions of Christians regarding that verse. My church (the LDS Church) practices baptism for the dead based upon these principles:

1. Everyone must be baptized to receive salvation
2. God is just. He gives everyone the same opportunity to receive salvation

You may very well disagree with our teachings, but I think you'd find our approach to the subject interesting. One of the best references I can think of is in Section 128 of the Doctrine and Covenants.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by thetechnologyv

Hi mfblume,
I'm always interested to hear the opinions of Christians regarding that verse. My church (the LDS Church) practices baptism for the dead based upon these principles:

1. Everyone must be baptized to receive salvation
2. God is just. He gives everyone the same opportunity to receive salvation

You may very well disagree with our teachings, but I think you'd find our approach to the subject interesting.

Hi,

I am aware that the LDS believe in baptism for those who passed away, however it does not allow for the BELIEVETH in "He that BELIEVETH and is baptized shall be saved."

[thetechnologyv]

I understand what you mean. Baptism alone cannot save someone. Baptism must be accompanied by belief. We understand that many of the baptisms for the dead that we do, possibly even the majority of them, are likely for naught. It's hard to tell since we can't see what's happening in the society of the afterlife. There was a vision recorded by one of our early prophets regarding baptism for the dead and preaching the gospel in Doctrine and Covenants 138.

The difference in LDS philosophy is that the believing part can take place after this life in the case where a person is never given the opportunity to accept Jesus Christ during his lifetime, which is especially the case for most people who spend their entire life among the heathen nations.

I realize that much of this is strange to contemporary Christians, but it's the only thorough attempt I've encountered to explain the Bible verses you mentioned.

[mfblume]

Anyway, again, any thoughts from those who feel Romans 6 is a dry baptism? If Romans 6 is saying the same thing as 1 Peter 3, and 1 Peter 3 is speaking of wet baptism, well...

[mfblume]

Where's all the "Romans 6 dry baptism" people??????

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by thetechnologyv

I understand what you mean. Baptism alone cannot save someone. Baptism must be accompanied by belief. We understand that many of the baptisms for the dead that we do, possibly even the majority of them, are likely for naught. It's hard to tell since we can't see what's happening in the society of the afterlife. There was a vision recorded by one of our early prophets regarding baptism for the dead and preaching the gospel in Doctrine and Covenants 138.

The difference in LDS philosophy is that the believing part can take place after this life in the case where a person is never given the opportunity to accept Jesus Christ during his lifetime, which is especially the case for most people who spend their entire life among the heathen nations.

I realize that much of this is strange to contemporary Christians, but it's the only thorough attempt I've encountered to explain the Bible verses you mentioned.

This belief is also strange to the Bible. Univeralists believe God will purify the unbeliever in hell fire until they are deemed pure and allowed into heaven or accept Christ. Its not too much different, except this belief above still allows for some who are too stubborn to believe in Hell to be restored.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

This belief is also strange to the Bible. Univeralists believe God will purify the unbeliever in hell fire until they are deemed pure and allowed into heaven or accept Christ. Its not too much different, except this belief above still allows for some who are too stubborn to believe in Hell to be restored.

Nothing suggests anyone in the new testament believed dead people could be baptized by proxy. The best explanation is that Paul was saying the same thing he said in Romans 6. We are baptized because of the death of Jesus -- for the dead.

[thetechnologyv]

Sorry it's been awhile since I dropped in on this thread. I feel like I need to follow up on the last two responses to my posts.

As I read through this thread and many others like it, one thing that comes out clearly is the fact that there are countless different ways to interpret what the Biblical prophets were teaching. To be certain about what Paul and his contemporaries meant when they wrote any particular passage of scripture would require an actual conversation with the author...or with a person who currently holds the same position as Paul did, someone who represents Jesus Christ. My claim is that there are such people on the earth today, just like they've always existed whenever the fullness of the gospel exists.

With that being said, the suggestions that I made regarding why The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does baptism for the dead do not come people who are attempting to figure out what Paul said 2000 years ago. They come from Jesus Christ through modern-day equivalents of Paul.

I recommend that people focus more on Jesus Christ himself than in incomplete and error-prone attempts at understanding the Bible, which have been demonstrated to produce thousands of different religions. Here is some great education in that regard: http://lds.org/scriptures/bd/bible?lang=eng

[hawks-cry]

Originally Posted by thetechnologyv

.......the suggestions that I made regarding why The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does baptism for the dead do not come people who are attempting to figure out what Paul said 2000 years ago. They come from Jesus Christ through modern-day equivalents of Paul.

Sooooooo,...you don't need them thar "old scriptures", eh?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by thetechnologyv

Sorry it's been awhile since I dropped in on this thread. I feel like I need to follow up on the last two responses to my posts.

As I read through this thread and many others like it, one thing that comes out clearly is the fact that there are countless different ways to interpret what the Biblical prophets were teaching. To be certain about what Paul and his contemporaries meant when they wrote any particular passage of scripture would require an actual conversation with the author...or with a person who currently holds the same position as Paul did, someone who represents Jesus Christ. My claim is that there are such people on the earth today, just like they've always existed whenever the fullness of the gospel exists.

With that being said, the suggestions that I made regarding why The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does baptism for the dead do not come people who are attempting to figure out what Paul said 2000 years ago. They come from Jesus Christ through modern-day equivalents of Paul.

I recommend that people focus more on Jesus Christ himself than in incomplete and error-prone attempts at understanding the Bible, which have been demonstrated to produce thousands of different religions. Here is some great education in that regard: http://lds.org/scriptures/bd/bible?lang=eng

The bible is not something we require modern equivalents of Paul to interpret. God laid it out so that folks, like the Bereans, can search the scriptures to see what doctrines are true or not. The bible called the Bereans NOBLE for the manner.