Resurrection in Romans 8:10-11 not from the grave

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I always heard it said for many years as a young Christian that the resurrection in the following verses is about the day the trumpet sounds and all bodies of the saints in the graves rise to meet the Lord. But upon careful reading, I now see that's not what it's about at all.

Romans 8:10-11 KJV And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. (11) But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

We read the body is dead if Christ is in us. Is Christ in you? The body is then dead.

Now, how does that lead up to the resurrection from the grave if the next verse is speaking about the resurrection from the grave? The idea verse 11 is speaking of physical resurrection from the grave would demand AFTER the body is dead and Jesus comes our bodies will rise. But verse 10 says our bodies are already dead!

If you read before chapter 8 you will lfind Paul speaking about that very thing.

Romans 7:5-11 KJV For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. (6) But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. (7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. (8) But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. (9) For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. (10) And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. (11) For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

Notice Paul taught that HE DIED when the law came along and demanded he commit works of righteousness. And the style in which Paul wrote reveals more about this.

He starts off saying without the law sin was dead. So when he had no law, sin was dead.

But things flip-flipped when law came.

"For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died."

So things reversed. He was alive without the law and sin was dead. But when the law came and he was commanded to obey it, sin was no longer dead, but REVIVED! And instead of sin being dead, PAUL DIED! He was alive without the law at one point, and sin was dead. But when LAW came, sin revived and Paul died.

What is the nature of his death in this context? It is what Romans 8:10-11 is based on. It is being slain spiritually. His entire life for God DIED. That's the sense. As far as being alive for God and successfully serving Him, PAUL DIED. He failed.

And it is FROM THAT STANDPOINT that Romans 8:10 says if Christ is in us the BODY IS DEAD BECAUSE OF SIN.

Now, one might claim that can't be so, for having Christ in us should solve everything. Not necessarily. Paul taught quite plainly Romans 6 that we must KNOW some things in order to succeed in serving God without sinning. We have to understands the purpose of the Spirit being more than making us talk in tongues when we get it!

We have to KNOW that we die with Christ when we are baptized. Why? So the resurrection of Jesus can occur in us and we begin to walk in newness of life. THIS IS WHERE ROMANS 8:10-11 COMES INTO FOCUS. The resurrection in Romans 6:4-5 is NOT speaking of the body coming out of the grave. It is speaking about RIGHT NOW living a SUCCESSFUL Christian life over sin. How do I know? Read these verses that are speaking about the here and now.

Romans 6:8-12 KJV Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: (9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. (10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. (11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. (12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

See what it says after we are told we must consider ourselves dead to sin and alive to God, like Jesus? It says we should not let sin rule in our mortal bodies any more! Because we are dead with Christ, and also alive with Him through union to Him in our baptisms, making His history become ours, WE SHOULD NOT LET SIN RULE IN OUR MORTAL BODIES.

And that use of the term "MORTAL BODY" is repeated in Romans 8:10-11. The same Spireit that raised up Christ from the dead will QUICKEN OUR MORTAL BODIES.

Now if you still think resurrection form the grave is in view here, read verse 12 in Romans 8.

Romans 8:11-12 KJV But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. (12) Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

Why would not being a debtor to the flesh, to live after the flesh, be the conclusion we read after being informed the Spirit will quicken our MORTAL BODIES?

Is it saying, don't let sin rule because the rapture is going to take place one day? No. What has the rapture got to do with my opportunity to not commit sin now? Verse 12 is making a conclusion of HOW WE CAN LIVE based upon the truth of verse 11. It is actually saying because the Spirit quickens our mortal bodies (Rom 8:10), after we've seen sin rule in our mortal bodies (6:12), we do not have to live after the flesh and commit sins all the time!

That's it!

Romans 6:11-12 is saying that because we are ALIVE UNTO GOD through union to Jesus, we do not have to let sin rule in our MORTAL BODIES ANY MORE. And instead of letting sin rule in our mortal bodies, Romans 8:11-12 says we can instead have the Spirit quicken our mortal bodies IN THE HERE AND NOW.

(And as an aside, ins't it interesting that the verse numbers of both chapters 6 and 8 are the same when speaking of the same thing? Romans 6:11-12 and Romans 8:11-12!)

Romans 6:13 informs us quite clearly that the context from chapters 6 through 8 is speaking of spiritual resurrection in a life of VICTORY IN THE HERE AND NOW!

Romans 6:13 KJV Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

We need to yield TWO THINGS to God.

1) Ourselves!
2) Our bodily members.

And when we are told to yield OURSELVES to God, we are told to do so in a certain MANNER. AS THOSE ALIVE FROM THE DEAD!

And then yield our MEMBERS as instruments of His righteousness!

Now, if we did not have to consciously do that, and it is all automatic, why are we being taught to do this by Paul?

It is because IT WILL NOT HAPPEN unless we first have FAITH for it to happen and then with that faith give ourselves to God to use our bodies, instead of sin always using them, and expect something to happen!

What will happen is what we read about in Romans 8:11.

When we consider ourselves alive from the dead with Jesus, due to the truths of Rom 6:3-5, and we present ourselves to God in that kind of faith understanding, we expect God to move! What will we expect Him to do? If you've learned Romans 6:3-12, you will expect Him to EMPOWER you to stop seeing sin overpower you, and believe for God to cause you to live supernaturally over a lifestyle of committing sin! And that's when Romans 8:10-12 will take place!

We've been so brainwashed by negativity and failure that we think WE HAVE TO SIN and cannot get victory over it. The only victory we think we can have is repenting after we sin! But Paul is saying NO! You do not need to let sin rule in your mortal bodies, but instead can present yourselves as candidates for a PRACTICAL resurrection while you still have a mortal body, so the Spirit can quicken and make alive that DEAD BODY (dead in failures noted in Ro 7:9-11) and you no longer are a debtor to the flesh to live after the flesh all your life and commit sins!

Without knowing the truths of Romans 6, though, we'll never experience this because we won't have faith to so much as believe and then ask God for this to happen!

Hooboy!!!! This stuff is my candystick! I love the truths of Romans 6 through 8!

Can I get a witness?

The DEATH in Romans 8:10 is the DEATH in Romans 7:9-11!!! Not death in physical grave!

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When you read Romans 6 through 8 in order to understand what 8:10-11 is talking about, you realize it is an issue of the here and now Christian life, and whether or not SIN is resurrected in you or YOU are spiritually resurrected instead! The death Paul spoke about was inability to serve God without sinning.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by mfblume

When you read Romans 6 through 8 in order to understand what 8:10-11 is talking about, you realize it is an issue of the here and now Christian life, and whether or not SIN is resurrected in you or YOU are spiritually resurrected instead! The death Paul spoke about was inability to serve God without sinning.

Mike, I am most impressed with this thread. I too have wondered about Romans 8:11 as a future resurrection does not seem to fit the context of what Paul was discussing.

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Originally Posted by Originalist

Mike, I am most impressed with this thread. I too have wondered about Romans 8:11 as a future resurrection does not seem to fit the context of what Paul was discussing.

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When Paul wrote the body is dead because of sin, those who feel Rom 8:11 is speaking about resurrection from the grave at the last trump feel verse 10 is actually saying If the body is in a state of being dead because of sin, then the trumpet shall sound one day and we'll be raised according to verse 11. But that is not what verse 10 stated, so it makes them err in verse 11. It made a blanket statement to us who are alive when it said the body is dead. The body IS DEAD if Christ is in us. It did not say WILL DIE. It said IS DEAD.

And this goes back to how Paul used the word dead since chapter 7.

Romans 7:8-11 KJV But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. (9) For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. (10) And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. (11) For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

Paul was still physically alive, but he said HE DIED when he failed due to being slain by sin. So, death is speaking of something other than physical death. And the reason he said the body is dead in 8:10 is because the body is instead taken over by "sin and death", the phrase he so often mentions in chapters 7.

The way Paul used the word "dead" in these verses is speaking of failing to serve God. His servitude died, as it were. So, when we read 8:10 say if Christ is in us the body is dead, we are supposed to have that in mind. I'ts like saying, "As far as using the body to serve God by obeying commandments written on paper, the body is dead. It doesn't work. We fail every time. So, it's useless to think we can succeed."

So, Paul noted that the Spirit of Christ can be in us, but the body still be dead, useless to God and to ourselves as far as serving God is concerned. Instead of resorting to making ourselves obey commandments through the power of fleshly exertion and will power, we need the Spirit.

Some think this is speaking of the human spirit, but I disagree. Christ was already stated to be in us.

Romans 8:10 KJV And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

How can the body be dead if Christ is in us, if Paul was talking about failure to serve God and experiencing the slaying by sin so that, like Paul, sin revives and we die? Would Paul have not meant this in reference to sinners alone? How can it apply to Christians?

It does apply to Christians. Whether we're saved or not, anyone, bar none, who tries to serve God by oldness of the letter in forcing ourselves to obey a written commandment will fail, and will in effect be slain by sin. Some think Romans 7 talks only of unregenerate people. But it applies to saved people, as well, because Romans 6 repeats the question, "Know ye not?" After asking us whether or not we KNOW we're baptized into Christ's death (Ro 6:3), and our need to know that we're crucified with Jesus so we should not serve sin (Ro 6:6), and to know just like Jesus died and was risen by the Spirit we died with Him and are risen (Ro 6:10-11), we are informed in verse 12 we must not allow sin to rule in our mortal bodies any longer.

And when Chapter 7 explains how Paul tried to obey the law but realized everytime he did, sin revived and slew him, he's saying the same thing is true for people who are saved! So many think Romans 7 describes only unsaved people. However, saved people have the same struggles as Paul described when they try to serve God without the power of the Spirit. It's like having the Spirit, but not knowing how we must approach the whole issue so that Spirit inside can HELP!

For that reason, Romans 6 continues and says we must present ourselves to God as those alive form the dead -- with that understanding. And the reason we are doing this is because we now know that efforts to make ourselves obey law only cause sin to rise up and kill us, so we're not going to use that approach any longer. We're going to rely on the Spirit of God to cause us to walk in newness of life.

We are alive from the dead in Christ. But we must now WALK in the newness of Life and in the likeness of His resurrection. Did Jesus walk in newness of life after He arose form the grave by resorting to commandments written in papyrus and making himself obey them? Of course not. The SPIRIT OF GOD empowered Him to walk. By the same token, we stop sin from ruling in our mortal bodies by ceasing to resort to command-keeping Christianity, and resorting instead to the Spirit BY PRAYER AND FAITH.

And here is where legalism creeps up and whispers, "See, they're preaching YOU CAN STILL SIN."

No, we must cease sinning. The Spirit in us will not empower us to sin. It empowers us to NOT SIN. The Spirit will work in us when we pray for Him to do so, and when He works, HE DOES NOT COMMIT SIN. If a person is committing sins and claims to be walking in the Spirit, they are liars and they are doing nothing in the Spirit. Someone who is led of the Spirit WILL NOT SIN.

Galatians 5:16 KJV This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

This is where Ro 6:13 comes in:

Romans 6:13 KJV Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

S,o instead of sin ruling in our mortal bodies, we've cut off that occasion for sin by not resorting to obedience to commandments, but INSTEAD calling on God and letting Him know we finally understand how it works. Resorting commandments and forcing ourselves to obey is what Paul said CANNOT WORK in Rom 7:9-11.

Verse 13 tells us to pray, "God, here I am alive form the dead! I finally realize that resorting to commandments on paper and forcing myself to obey them only stirs sin up in my flesh and it lashes out and kills any attempt I make to serve you that way. So, I am going to you instead, knowing I am alive from the dead now with Christ, and I only need your Spirit to empower me and cause me to walk in thy statutes. Instead of sin using my members, you use them as instruments of your righteousness. I am alive from the dead, so I know sin does not have to rule me any more. But I also know that I can have your Spirit in me and STILL FAIL if I try to serve you like someone under law who doesn't even have the Holy Ghost in them. I know that, whether saved or not, sin is still in my flesh, and it will rule on me if I use fleshly effort alone to serve you. Using fleshly effort alone is not going to you in prayer for power to serve you! So, here I am, alive from the dead, and ready for you to empower me by your Spirit just like that Spirit raised up Christ form the dead!"

So, in other words, you know the body is dead and useless as far as trying to serve God by commandment keeping. And now that you've prayed, God takes that dead body and brings it to life by the same Spirit that resurrected Jesus, and uses your bodily members as instruments of righteousness, and you are not a debtor to live after the flesh any more! You are LED BY THE SPIRIT.

WALKING AFTER the Spirit is being LED BY the Spirit. A sheep walks after the shepherd, and the shepherd lead the sheep. One phrase is from OUR perspective: Walk after the Spirit. The other phrase is the same thing from God's perspective: Be LED OF THE SPIRIT.

Now this is going to be a zinger for you as you read this: Walking after the flesh is NOT LIMITED to committing sins. It will lead to that, but IT ALSO INCLUDES trying to serve God by law-keeping. It is USING FLESH to serve God, instead of calling on the Spirit of God to empower you to succeed!

We were always told that walking after the flesh is adultery and stealing, etc. But here Paul is also using it to describe serving God in oldness of the letter, which is a flesh-exerting service. The newness of the Spirit in Rom 7:6 corresponds to walking in NEWNESS OF LIFE in Ro 6:4.

THAT is the reason was read in Rom 8:12 that there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH but AFTER THE SPIRIT. You can be IN CHRIST and walk after the flesh by living for God like Paul TRIED AND FAILED in Roman 7:9-11.

Romans 7:9-11 KJV For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. (10) And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. (11) For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

So, Romans 7 is NOT ONLY talking about unsaved people trying to life by the Old Testament method of commandment-obedience. Saved people will fail, too, if they go about service to God like Paul tried in Ro 7:9-11. Walking after the flesh is serving God like Ro 7:9-11. Walking after the Spirit takes some education of Ro 6:3-12, and once you know that truth, you then do what 6:13 says to do! THAT is walking after the Spirit.

And instead of sin ruling in your mortal body like Ro 6:12 says we must not experience, the Spirit quickens that dead body and empowers us to SUCCEED!

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Romans 8:10-17 KJV And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. (11) But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. (12) Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. (13) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. (14) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. (15) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. (16) The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: (17) And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

After we read that we are not debtors to live after the flesh because of the Spirit's quickening, or giving of life to, our mortal bodies, we then read why that's so important. If we are led of the flesh we shall die.

Now, the only reason that can be an explanation for what was said in verse 11, since verse 14 begins with the word "FOR", indicating an explanation for the previous words in verse 11, is for Paul's use of the concept of Spirit quickening to describe what happens when we are what he calls being led of that Spirit. That's important to notice, because it's the reason Romans 8:1 is written the way it is. Condemnation does not come to those who walk after the Spirit. It does, however, come to those in Christ who walk after the flesh. How can you walk after the flesh if you're in Christ? Simple. By law-keeping.

Let me explain.

You would not say, "The way to Walmart is to go over that bridge, because those who take that road will get to Walmart," if getting over the bridge did not require going down the particular road in mind. The quickening of the Spirit in verse 11 is the antecedent for being led of the Spirit in verse 14.

This is a HUGE point of the Romans 7-8 narrative that lawkeepers do not grasp in their reading. If they did, they would no longer be lawkeepers.

Paul described the death of Romans 8:13 in Romans 7:9-11. But through the Spirit we are able to see the deeds of our bodies mortified. THIS is what verse 11 is referring to.

And when you put it altogether, you find it is saying that when we see the Holy Ghost quicken, or give life to, our mortal bodies, we are being led of the Spirit! People think they're led of the Spirit when the feel something in their hearts to do for God and it turns out to be God leading them. I believe that is true. However, that's not the context at all for what this chapter is saying. Paul is claiming in Romans 8 that the ones who experience the Spirit quickening their mortal bodies so the deeds of the body are mortified, as the ones who are led by the Spirit!

It's not a spirit of bondage we receive that puts us in bondage to the flesh and to sin. We receive liberty! The power of the Spirit liberates us, and does not enslave us. It overcomes the sin in our flesh!

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Romans 8: (13) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

When Paul said he died after trying to obey the commandments, and he specifically mentioned the 10th one "Thou shalt not covet," he said sin was the culprit. Sin used the law like a dagger and killed him with that law. Paul ensured we do not think law is evil. no the contrary, he said, it's good and holy. But sin in our flesh kicks into effect when we try to obey a law and uses that attempt to kill us.

That is what Paul meant in Rom 8:13. If you live after the flesh you shall die. So, how could trying to keep a commandment be described as "living after the flesh"?

Again, this is a concept law-keepers cannot grasp.

Living after the flesh is trying to serve God in a FLESHLY manner. Flesh itself is not bad. But the reason flesh is associated with negativity in the new testament is because it is infused with sin. And so doing something in the flesh, when we simply use fleshly ability to serve God, will see negative effects ensue. And since law-keeping is simply reading a law and endeavouring to obey it with the flesh, and because sin is in that flesh, Paul explained sin revives in our flesh and kills us!

In short, compare Ro 8:13 with Ro 7:9-11 and you will understand what walking after the flesh is all about in Paul's use of the phrase in Romans.

I claim if THIS single point can be understood, the entire discourse will be correctly followed.

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Since Romans 7 is still claimed by so many that Paul was not talking about a saved person, but about unsaved unregenerate sinners, that error must be explained as well.

It can be easily explained by two verses. The last of chapter 7 and the first of chapter 8.

Romans 7:25-8:1 KJV I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (8:1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:3-4 KJV For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: (4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


8:2 makes the statement that people in Christ Jesus who do not walk after the flesh but after the Spirit will have no condemnation. Notice how it phrases that:

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

It makes the fact that condemnation does not occur to those who are in Christ Jesus to be stipulated only to a certain group who are in Christ Jesus. So, one has to ask if being in Christ Jesus refers to a regenerate person or not. Of course it does! So, Paul said that no condemnation is to those who are in Christ Jesus, but live in a certain manner. Those in Christ who do not walk after the flesh but instead walk after the Spirit are the ones whom Paul claimed have no condemnation. In other words, you can be in Christ and walk after the flesh, and experience condemnation.

Is Paul actually saying everyone in Christ is automatically meant to be understand that they are not walking after the flesh? Evidently some must think so! Otherwise they would realize Romans 7's description of defeat DOES INCLUDE regenerate people.

So, look at the context and see if those in Christ are by default not walking after the flesh.

Paul stated in the last verse of chapter 7 that with the mind he serves the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. After having made this claim about the flesh and its relationship to sin, he then stated those in Christ who walk not after that flesh have no condemnation. In other words, because we serve sin "with the flesh", if we're in Christ Jesus we must not walk after that flesh. The flesh by which we serve sin must not be that after which we walk!

One still might think Rom 8:1 is saying that being in Christ is by default not walking after the flesh. Keep reading Chapter 8.

Romans 8:5 KJV For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Is it possible to mind the things of the flesh as a regenerate Christian?

Is it impossible to mind the things of the flesh as a regenerate Christian?

Paul explained that if we mind the things of the flesh we are said to be people who are "after the flesh." Consider the phrase "walk not after the flesh" in 8:1 with the phrase, "after the flesh" in 8:5. Clearly they are referring to the same thing!

If it is possible to mind the things of the flesh as a regenerate believer, then a regenerate believer in that situation is walking after the flesh. And walking after the flesh is something we need to refrain from doing, because 7:25 said that the flesh that we're not supposed to walk after according to 8:1 is that with which we serve the law of sin.

Likewise, ask ourselves if it is possible for regenerate believers to live after the flesh? Is it impossible for believers to live after the flesh?

Romans 8:13 KJV For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

I am sure anyone reading 8:13 will apply this to themselves as a warning to not backslide, indicating just how one can backslide. The lesson is clear. Believers are supposed to mortify the deeds of the body through the Spirit. That's talking about everyday living. Deeds of the body are also referred to as works of the flesh. If we engage in works of the flesh we shall die. But if the Spirit instead mortifies those deeds of the body, we shall not die but rather live.

THEREFORE, if verse 13's reference to living after the flesh is indeed POSSIBLE for regenerate believers, that means its antecedent in 8:1, which is walking after the flesh, is something that is not automatically non-existent for regenerate believers. It is something from which regenerate believers must ensure they refrain.

And that , in turn, means serving sin with the flesh in 7:25 is certainly something that can occur with e regenerate believer. Extrapolate that even further back into Chapter 7 and realize that Paul wrote 7:25 and the note about serving sin with the flesh, while we serve the law God with the mind, because of what he wrote in 7:22-23.

Romans 7:22-23 KJV For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: (23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

To delight in the law of God is to serve God with the mind. As far as the mind is concerned, it is serving God. It wants and intends and believes to serve God's law with everything in it. Paul would not say the law of sin in his flesh brings him into captivity to that law of sin if he delighted in the law of sin! No one is a happy captive. He said he delighted in the law of God. Anyone who delights on the law of God would not want to be captive instead to the law of sin.

Extrapolate all of that back even further into chapter 7.

continued...

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Romans 7:15-19 KJV For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. (16) If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. (17) Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. (18) For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. (19) For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

When he stated that the thing he was actually doing was what he did not will to do (would is the past tense of will in verse 15), he was saying HIS MIND which choose to do or not to do, was totally against what he actually was doing! It's being forced to do something that one does not in any way will to do. That is what being a captive is. And the captivity in verse 23 that he found himself in against his will, is the captivity indicated in verse 14.

Romans 7:14 KJV For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

He said he had the will and full required intention to serve God by obeying the law of God that he insisted was good and holy (Rom 7:12). But a force inside his flesh was greater than his ability to perform what he fully intended to do. And that force works by the law of sin and death. The force of sin.

Therefore, Romans 8:13 words informing us that living after the flesh kills us, and the Spirit instead mortifies the deeds of the body causes us to live is not only an admonition to regenerate believers to never live after the flesh, are based upon the explanation of why that is that we find in Rm 7:14-25. And how could Romans 8:13 be based upon Romans 7:14-25 if regenerate believers cannot experience the perils of 7:14-25 because they can never be said to be captive and sold under sin?

The fact is we inadvertently SELL OURSELVES under sin when we try to walk after the flesh.

At this point of the study, it must be explained what "walking after the flesh" means in this context. Paul stated he desired to obey the law of God in all the required desire God expected. But when he went to execute that obedience, sin rose up in his flesh and killed him! He called it an attempt to serve God with the flesh but in reality says it is serving sin, when he wrote 7:25. That means that serving God with the flesh will fail, and it is actually a life of walking after the flesh to serve God in this failing manner. Since Paul made those attempts when he resorted to obeying a commandment written on stone (7:7), then walking after the flesh actually refers to trying to serve God IN THE OLDNESS OF THE LETTER.

Compare:

Romans 7:6-12 KJV But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. (7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. (8) But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. (9) For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. (10) And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. (11) For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. (12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. (13) Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

THOU SHALT NOT COVET is the tenth commandment! And Law was ordained to give life, according to Rom 7:10, but instead was the tool for sin to use to kill Paul. That does not mean Law is bad! Law keepers cannot make heads or tails out of the claim that sin uses law to slay us so we need to stop resorting to law-keeping, while at the same time they hear us say LAW IS NOT BAD! They think we are saying we can SIN when we say stop law-keeping. No. A thousand times no!

Law-keeping DOES NOT WORK.

That's why Romans 8 THEN says...

Romans 8:3-4 KJV For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: (4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The law could not succeed in getting us to serve God successfully. It only served as a tool for sin to kill us. So, God did what the Law could not do. he did not write a new list of commandments on stone. He SENT HIS SON to handle sin where Law could not. Jesus condemned sin his his flesh. Sin was in the flesh and hindered Paul from being able to perform the good obedience the Law demanded. So, Jesus condemned that sin in the flesh.

He condemned the condemner! Ro 8:1 and 8:3 is a play on words. Paul was a literary genius relating truth at the same time using play of words. Sin condemns those in Christ Jesus who walk after the flesh. Only when we're in Christ and don't walk after the flesh are wee free from condemnation. Why? Because Christ condemned the condemner called SIN IN THE FLESH! He took sin into his own flesh when He died as us. Why? So that the righteousness which the law tried to instill in man but failed would be instilled within us by a way completely apart from self making self obey a commandment.

And so walking after the SPIRIT is relying on the Spirit to serve God instead of resorting to written laws to obey and thereby serve God. And when the Spirit works in our lives, after we yield to Him and allow Him t mortify the deeds of our bodies WE SHALL LIVE AND NOT DIE!

We won't be made captive to sin when we stop resorting to law-keeping that urges flesh to obey God while sin is in that flesh to ensure it cannot! We will be FREE to serve God.

[Originalist]

I am going to save these posts to Word. Mike, you are one of the few Apostolic ministers I know who teaches this in-depth from Romans, much less has a clue what it is saying. Our members' spiritual growth is stunted because of they don't hear this kind of teaching. Too many of our ministers are insecure and somehow see Paul's teachings in Romans as a competition for Acts 2:38.