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Old 06-22-2022, 07:42 AM
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Apostolic Churches & Congregational Growth

Let me explain what I mean.

Does the church you attend have encouragement from the pulpit and those in leadership for the saints in the crowd to grow spiritually? Does the leadership encourage the congregation to explore the spiritual gifts, teach them how to pray for people, help them to learn how to operate the gift has chosen to us them, encourage them to hear from the Lord when praying for sinners to be delivered from spirits?

There was a time I fellowshipped with a variety of different churches and not all the churches I visited encouraged such growth from their congregation. Some of them actually seemed offended by it.

What say you?

P.S. I'm not initiating this discussion as church-bashing.
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I am Apostolic
I believe in One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism.
I believe in water baptism by immersion in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.
I believe in the baptism of the Holy Ghost, evidenced by speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance.
I believe in living a holiness lifestyle, inwardly and outwardly, without which no man shall see the Lord.
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Old 06-22-2022, 02:04 PM
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seguidordejesus seguidordejesus is offline
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Re: Apostolic Churches & Congregational Growth

Did you happen to notice what they were focusing on instead? Was the church otherwise healthy, with evidence of the fruits of the spirit?
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Old 06-22-2022, 02:47 PM
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Re: Apostolic Churches & Congregational Growth

Sure, I noticed other things. One church, for example, focused on having really good music, where the young men and women would shout practically the same way at one specific point in the song. Their services seemed orchestrated, not Spirit-led.
__________________
I am Apostolic
I believe in One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism.
I believe in water baptism by immersion in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.
I believe in the baptism of the Holy Ghost, evidenced by speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance.
I believe in living a holiness lifestyle, inwardly and outwardly, without which no man shall see the Lord.
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Old 06-22-2022, 03:51 PM
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jediwill83 jediwill83 is offline
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Re: Apostolic Churches & Congregational Growth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bro Flame View Post
Sure, I noticed other things. One church, for example, focused on having really good music, where the young men and women would shout practically the same way at one specific point in the song. Their services seemed orchestrated, not Spirit-led.

The Spirit just needed some help is all brother. 🤣😉
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  #5  
Old 06-23-2022, 07:31 AM
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Re: Apostolic Churches & Congregational Growth

Quote:
Originally Posted by jediwill83 View Post
The Spirit just needed some help is all brother. ����
In that church, they need something to get them stirred. To them, they aren't having church unless people are running the aisles, shouting the same shout, and rolling the same direction on the floor. Oh, but no one can get their hair messed up. Not the women, not the men.
__________________
I am Apostolic
I believe in One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism.
I believe in water baptism by immersion in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.
I believe in the baptism of the Holy Ghost, evidenced by speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance.
I believe in living a holiness lifestyle, inwardly and outwardly, without which no man shall see the Lord.
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  #6  
Old 06-23-2022, 09:29 AM
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seguidordejesus seguidordejesus is offline
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Re: Apostolic Churches & Congregational Growth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bro Flame View Post
Sure, I noticed other things. One church, for example, focused on having really good music, where the young men and women would shout practically the same way at one specific point in the song. Their services seemed orchestrated, not Spirit-led.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bro Flame View Post
In that church, they need something to get them stirred. To them, they aren't having church unless people are running the aisles, shouting the same shout, and rolling the same direction on the floor. Oh, but no one can get their hair messed up. Not the women, not the men.
I was kind of hoping they were mature in other ways but it sounds like...nope.
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  #7  
Old 06-23-2022, 09:33 AM
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Re: Apostolic Churches & Congregational Growth

Quote:
Originally Posted by seguidordejesus View Post
I was kind of hoping they were mature in other ways but it sounds like...nope.
Speaking of that church specifically, they have strong and sometimes weird standards and doctrines, but have next-to-no love whatsoever. Their church is sadly full of cliques and racists.

Let me elaborate.

As for strong doctrines, their church typically preaches against social media and worldly amusements. For years, the young people were told to stay away from Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, Twitter, what have you. I can respect wanting to restrict yourself and not get caught up in the drama-filled environment that usually drowns social media. Such restrictions have lessened over time, however, and many people in this church have found their way to social media. They used to also stay clear of state fairs, Independence Day celebrations, or anything concerning a holiday that wasn't Thanksgiving. Those restrictions have also changed. But I could respect them when they had them and held true to them. There's nothing wrong with a Christian distancing themselves from this world and doing what they can to cling as closely to Jesus as possible.

Some of their weird doctrines are, well, just weird and outright wrong. They have a doctrine called "spiritual adultery" that basically means wherever you got the Holy Ghost, under whichever ministry, you belong to that ministry. If you backslide, you come back to where you got the Holy Ghost originally. If you move or something causes you change churches -- whatever the reason may be -- you have committed "spiritual adultery" against the pastor and ministry where you originally received the Holy Ghost. It's a weird doctrine with no Biblical basis. They've hurt and critiqued people with it many, many times.

At my home church, we have six saints that came from this church. One sister had issues arise in her marriage after being raised at said church that ultimately led to her and her husband separating. Their were faults on both sides, and they decided splitting up was for the best. I must add that this sister and her then-husband had backslidden from said church and that they were backslidden when they divorced. This specific sister repented, prayed back through to the Holy Ghost, and started coming to our church when she decided to get right with Jesus again. Her former church -- the above mentioned one -- had all but outcast her. Her ex-husband's family all goes there and they certainly weren't going to welcome her back. Once said church discovered she was attending our church, they started rumors about our church being fine with people running off from their husbands... which, that isn't what happened, but you get the picture.

There is another family that left said church to come to ours. This family is led by an elderly woman who attended said church for around 40 years. Her husband has never gone to church with her, and all her children left the Lord once they were old enough to make their own decisions. While her children were backslidden, they had interracial children that now live with their elderly grandmother. When this grandmother tried to get her grandchildren involved in church at the above mentioned church, her children (who are half-white, half-black) were mocked and ridiculed. From the youngest, to the oldest, and right up to the pastor, they were called the "N-word" and made fun of because their hair wasn't easy to maintain. These young girls didn't want to go to church anymore. Their grandmother eventually started visiting our church, where her middle granddaughter would receive the Holy Ghost. After this, the grandmother decided to leave the aforementioned church and come to ours where she and her grandchildren can grow and be loved for who God's made them to be.

Rumors have since circulated that my pastors are "sheep stealers".

The church I've mentioned is quite large and has some wealthier people in it. I used to have some friends that go there. I say "used" because they're not my friends anymore. They've completely reverted to the mindset of that church and they've distanced themselves from me with time. They have said nasty things about my church, my church family, and they even teach -- or so I've heard -- that the saints in our church do not have the Holy Ghost.

The sister I spoke of earlier that came to our church post-divorce once said the aforementioned church "wasn't led, it's ruled."

I don't like undermining or speaking ill of fellow self-professing Christians, especially those within the Apostolic faith, but this church isn't healthy. They basically control their people and exile you if you don't play by their rules. They preach standards, not holiness, and they let anybody with some new, weird doctrine preach that mess to their people. They haven't any love for anyone, not even their own.

So, in short, their congregation isn't encouraged or allowed to grow unless their part of the "elite" few. Most are just lost in the shuffle, but every now and again, they'll fancy themselves to one young preacher and push him very hard. They'll promote him and send him places all over the state to help kick-start an evangelistic career. As for the women and young ladies, outside of teaching Sunday school and singing, they're just arm charms. They're treated as second-class citizens.

It's a sad, toxic situation.
__________________
I am Apostolic
I believe in One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism.
I believe in water baptism by immersion in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.
I believe in the baptism of the Holy Ghost, evidenced by speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance.
I believe in living a holiness lifestyle, inwardly and outwardly, without which no man shall see the Lord.

Last edited by Bro Flame; 06-23-2022 at 10:07 AM.
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  #8  
Old 06-23-2022, 10:39 AM
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seguidordejesus seguidordejesus is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: South Central Texas
Posts: 2,741
Re: Apostolic Churches & Congregational Growth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bro Flame View Post
Speaking of that church specifically, they have strong and sometimes weird standards and doctrines, but have next-to-no love whatsoever. Their church is sadly full of cliques and racists.

Let me elaborate.

As for strong doctrines, their church typically preaches against social media and worldly amusements. For years, the young people were told to stay away from Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, Twitter, what have you. I can respect wanting to restrict yourself and not get caught up in the drama-filled environment that usually drowns social media. Such restrictions have lessened over time, however, and many people in this church have found their way to social media. They used to also stay clear of state fairs, Independence Day celebrations, or anything concerning a holiday that wasn't Thanksgiving. Those restrictions have also changed. But I could respect them when they had them and held true to them. There's nothing wrong with a Christian distancing themselves from this world and doing what they can to cling as closely to Jesus as possible.

Some of their weird doctrines are, well, just weird and outright wrong. They have a doctrine called "spiritual adultery" that basically means wherever you got the Holy Ghost, under whichever ministry, you belong to that ministry. If you backslide, you come back to where you got the Holy Ghost originally. If you move or something causes you change churches -- whatever the reason may be -- you have committed "spiritual adultery" against the pastor and ministry where you originally received the Holy Ghost. It's a weird doctrine with no Biblical basis. They've hurt and critiqued people with it many, many times.

At my home church, we have six saints that came from this church. One sister had issues arise in her marriage after being raised at said church that ultimately led to her and her husband separating. Their were faults on both sides, and they decided splitting up was for the best. I must add that this sister and her then-husband had backslidden from said church and that they were backslidden when they divorced. This specific sister repented, prayed back through to the Holy Ghost, and started coming to our church when she decided to get right with Jesus again. Her former church -- the above mentioned one -- had all but outcast her. Her ex-husband's family all goes there and they certainly weren't going to welcome her back. Once said church discovered she was attending our church, they started rumors about our church being fine with people running off from their husbands... which, that isn't what happened, but you get the picture.

There is another family that left said church to come to ours. This family is led by an elderly woman who attended said church for around 40 years. Her husband has never gone to church with her, and all her children left the Lord once they were old enough to make their own decisions. While her children were backslidden, they had interracial children that now live with their elderly grandmother. When this grandmother tried to get her grandchildren involved in church at the above mentioned church, her children (who are half-white, half-black) were mocked and ridiculed. From the youngest, to the oldest, and right up to the pastor, they were called the "N-word" and made fun of because their hair wasn't easy to maintain. These young girls didn't want to go to church anymore. Their grandmother eventually started visiting our church, where her middle granddaughter would receive the Holy Ghost. After this, the grandmother decided to leave the aforementioned church and come to ours where she and her grandchildren can grow and be loved for who God's made them to be.

Rumors have since circulated that my pastors are "sheep stealers".

The church I've mentioned is quite large and has some wealthier people in it. I used to have some friends that go there. I say "used" because they're not my friends anymore. They've completely reverted to the mindset of that church and they've distanced themselves from me with time. They have said nasty things about my church, my church family, and they even teach -- or so I've heard -- that the saints in our church do not have the Holy Ghost.

The sister I spoke of earlier that came to our church post-divorce once said the aforementioned church "wasn't led, it's ruled."

I don't like undermining or speaking ill of fellow self-professing Christians, especially those within the Apostolic faith, but this church isn't healthy. They basically control their people and exile you if you don't play by their rules. They preach standards, not holiness, and they let anybody with some new, weird doctrine preach that mess to their people. They haven't any love for anyone, not even their own.

So, in short, their congregation isn't encouraged or allowed to grow unless their part of the "elite" few. Most are just lost in the shuffle, but every now and again, they'll fancy themselves to one young preacher and push him very hard. They'll promote him and send him places all over the state to help kick-start an evangelistic career. As for the women and young ladies, outside of teaching Sunday school and singing, they're just arm charms. They're treated as second-class citizens.

It's a sad, toxic situation.
Sad, and unfortunately, not uncommon.
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  #9  
Old 06-23-2022, 12:17 PM
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Re: Apostolic Churches & Congregational Growth

Quote:
Originally Posted by seguidordejesus View Post
Sad, and unfortunately, not uncommon.
Unfortunately, you're right. It's not that uncommon. I don't know why Pentecostal churches want to have strange doctrines everywhere. I mean, people are think we're strange as it is, so we don't need to help them in that thinking.
__________________
I am Apostolic
I believe in One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism.
I believe in water baptism by immersion in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.
I believe in the baptism of the Holy Ghost, evidenced by speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance.
I believe in living a holiness lifestyle, inwardly and outwardly, without which no man shall see the Lord.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-23-2022, 07:02 PM
LOVE JESUS LOVE JESUS is offline
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Posts: 237
Re: Apostolic Churches & Congregational Growth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bro Flame View Post
Speaking of that church specifically, they have strong and sometimes weird standards and doctrines, but have next-to-no love whatsoever. Their church is sadly full of cliques and racists.

Let me elaborate.

As for strong doctrines, their church typically preaches against social media and worldly amusements. For years, the young people were told to stay away from Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, Twitter, what have you. I can respect wanting to restrict yourself and not get caught up in the drama-filled environment that usually drowns social media. Such restrictions have lessened over time, however, and many people in this church have found their way to social media. They used to also stay clear of state fairs, Independence Day celebrations, or anything concerning a holiday that wasn't Thanksgiving. Those restrictions have also changed. But I could respect them when they had them and held true to them. There's nothing wrong with a Christian distancing themselves from this world and doing what they can to cling as closely to Jesus as possible.

Some of their weird doctrines are, well, just weird and outright wrong. They have a doctrine called "spiritual adultery" that basically means wherever you got the Holy Ghost, under whichever ministry, you belong to that ministry. If you backslide, you come back to where you got the Holy Ghost originally. If you move or something causes you change churches -- whatever the reason may be -- you have committed "spiritual adultery" against the pastor and ministry where you originally received the Holy Ghost. It's a weird doctrine with no Biblical basis. They've hurt and critiqued people with it many, many times.

At my home church, we have six saints that came from this church. One sister had issues arise in her marriage after being raised at said church that ultimately led to her and her husband separating. Their were faults on both sides, and they decided splitting up was for the best. I must add that this sister and her then-husband had backslidden from said church and that they were backslidden when they divorced. This specific sister repented, prayed back through to the Holy Ghost, and started coming to our church when she decided to get right with Jesus again. Her former church -- the above mentioned one -- had all but outcast her. Her ex-husband's family all goes there and they certainly weren't going to welcome her back. Once said church discovered she was attending our church, they started rumors about our church being fine with people running off from their husbands... which, that isn't what happened, but you get the picture.

There is another family that left said church to come to ours. This family is led by an elderly woman who attended said church for around 40 years. Her husband has never gone to church with her, and all her children left the Lord once they were old enough to make their own decisions. While her children were backslidden, they had interracial children that now live with their elderly grandmother. When this grandmother tried to get her grandchildren involved in church at the above mentioned church, her children (who are half-white, half-black) were mocked and ridiculed. From the youngest, to the oldest, and right up to the pastor, they were called the "N-word" and made fun of because their hair wasn't easy to maintain. These young girls didn't want to go to church anymore. Their grandmother eventually started visiting our church, where her middle granddaughter would receive the Holy Ghost. After this, the grandmother decided to leave the aforementioned church and come to ours where she and her grandchildren can grow and be loved for who God's made them to be.

Rumors have since circulated that my pastors are "sheep stealers".

The church I've mentioned is quite large and has some wealthier people in it. I used to have some friends that go there. I say "used" because they're not my friends anymore. They've completely reverted to the mindset of that church and they've distanced themselves from me with time. They have said nasty things about my church, my church family, and they even teach -- or so I've heard -- that the saints in our church do not have the Holy Ghost.

The sister I spoke of earlier that came to our church post-divorce once said the aforementioned church "wasn't led, it's ruled."

I don't like undermining or speaking ill of fellow self-professing Christians, especially those within the Apostolic faith, but this church isn't healthy. They basically control their people and exile you if you don't play by their rules. They preach standards, not holiness, and they let anybody with some new, weird doctrine preach that mess to their people. They haven't any love for anyone, not even their own.

So, in short, their congregation isn't encouraged or allowed to grow unless their part of the "elite" few. Most are just lost in the shuffle, but every now and again, they'll fancy themselves to one young preacher and push him very hard. They'll promote him and send him places all over the state to help kick-start an evangelistic career. As for the women and young ladies, outside of teaching Sunday school and singing, they're just arm charms. They're treated as second-class citizens.

It's a sad, toxic situation.
Sounds like a cult to me. Controlled by a man and a few "important" people. I would run from a church like that. They see who can be the most strict and have the most standards whether they be Biblical or not. They are the "I am more holy than you" type. Just my opinion..
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