Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Fellowship Hall > Fellowship Hall > WPF News
Facebook

Notices

WPF News Discussion of the WWPF meetings in Tulsa and related sidetracks.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #71  
Old 10-26-2011, 08:52 PM
MawMaw's Avatar
MawMaw MawMaw is offline
of 9!! :)


 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South
Posts: 5,851
Re: WPF back to UPCI

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Alvear View Post
May God help us all to win souls...
Amen Sister. If we are continually fighting one another, how is God pleased and how can a good work be done?
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 10-28-2011, 01:40 AM
Jay's Avatar
Jay Jay is offline
Apostolic Pentecostal


 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 3,417
Re: WPF back to UPCI

I would have to do some research on this as I have heard some disturbing things that the PAW is starting to trend toward. I do know that they are not the same organization that they were in the days of Bishop Haywood.
__________________
I am an Apostolic Pentecostal. Apostolic in teaching, and Pentecostal in experience.

Visit me at www.jonathandtalbot.blogspot.com.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 10-28-2011, 10:45 AM
trialedbyfire's Avatar
trialedbyfire trialedbyfire is offline
Holiness Is Still Right.


 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Washington DC Area
Posts: 1,093
Re: WPF back to UPCI

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
I would have to do some research on this as I have heard some disturbing things that the PAW is starting to trend toward. I do know that they are not the same organization that they were in the days of Bishop Haywood.
Just come to our convention. I love the organization as a whole, great preachers and a great legacy, and soem very faithful people at the local church level... but there's way to much foolishness and it's not creeping in anymore it's just there and making itself comfortable.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 10-29-2011, 12:23 AM
Jay's Avatar
Jay Jay is offline
Apostolic Pentecostal


 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 3,417
Re: WPF back to UPCI

I would like to do that, but I just went to Kansas City and took four days off of work. I will not be able to do anything like that again for a number of months. I will be praying for you and the whole PAW.
__________________
I am an Apostolic Pentecostal. Apostolic in teaching, and Pentecostal in experience.

Visit me at www.jonathandtalbot.blogspot.com.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 10-30-2011, 05:44 AM
Melody Melody is offline
curious observer


 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 285
Re: WPF back to UPCI

no article is to be heard that would bring division to the body.... they knew this would be a dividing factor, competitive? no people definitely know where both stand, choices are made.
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 10-30-2011, 01:52 PM
Steve Epley's Avatar
Steve Epley Steve Epley is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,903
Re: WPF back to UPCI

The PAW is gone. The organization of Haywood and Tobin no longer exists.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 10-30-2011, 08:10 PM
Jay's Avatar
Jay Jay is offline
Apostolic Pentecostal


 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 3,417
Re: WPF back to UPCI

Bro. Epley, I understand some of that, but if you do not mind, could you elaborate a bit on that for me. I am not quite sure what all has happened that caused the fall of the PAW. I am always seeking to learn more. They are a part of my history, due to the fact that I used to belong to a group that came out of them back in the 20s, and it would be educational.
__________________
I am an Apostolic Pentecostal. Apostolic in teaching, and Pentecostal in experience.

Visit me at www.jonathandtalbot.blogspot.com.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 11-02-2011, 07:35 PM
PraiseHymn's Avatar
PraiseHymn PraiseHymn is offline
Saved And Sanctified Since 1992


 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Durham, NC (Born and raised in NYC)
Posts: 375
Re: WPF back to UPCI

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
Bro. Epley, I understand some of that, but if you do not mind, could you elaborate a bit on that for me. I am not quite sure what all has happened that caused the fall of the PAW. I am always seeking to learn more. They are a part of my history, due to the fact that I used to belong to a group that came out of them back in the 20s, and it would be educational.

What happened in the PAW is no different that what happened (or is currently happening) to most conservative Holiness churches. Holiness is no longer preached. Instead, everyone is following after the almighty dollar instead of God Almighty.

* Inward holiness is not preached anymore.

* Outward standards arent preached anymore.

* Trinitarians crept in and started to preach on the local and national level which caused an outcry amongst the churches that still hold to the truth.

* Typical scandals involving money, sex, and drugs (not saying that I know for sure of someone who used drugs, I just assume on that one) all of this caused people to be hurt and leave the organization and vow never to go back to strict holiness.

* Apostolic Doctrine is certainly NOT being preached in the churches. Its rare to hear the word Apostolic in a PAW church now UNLESS the word "Apostolic" is in the church name. A lot of PAW churches took Pentecostal or Apostolic out of there church name and renamed them Family Worship Center or "Christian Church".

* PAW does not want to be exclusive anymore when it comes to the Name of Jesus but inclusive of all who call themselves Christian.

* The title "Jesus Only" is at the top of the PAW National Seal that can be found on banners and official paper. Well, the liberals wanted to snatch that out and leave it blank and the conservatives had a fit.

* Jesus Name Baptism still takes place in all PAW churches however some now do it sporadicaly while others (i.e. Noel Jones Church) wont say it aloud over the pulpit but they wait until you get to the altar and personaly ask you if you want to be baptised in Jesus Name (I witness this for myself at a service there).

COOLJC (Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ) has gone this route too which is the second largest black Oneness Pentecostal organization. The problem in my community (speaking of my race, my people, african americans), we have a problem with obediance and we love kepping up with the Jones's (i.e. if the mega trinitarian churches that come on tv speak in tongues and shout and dont have a dress code, why should we....Im gonna put my pants on and dare the Bishop to say something to me...I wont ever give a dime to this church again, you watch, I'll fix him). Dont tell us how to live for God (we got that already), dont tell us to be faithful to church (I will come when I want to come and if you dont speak to me I'll have a fit and you might not see me for a month) and please dont restrict me in what I want to wear (I'll put my pants on, earrings and paint my face and sit in the choir stand cause I felt like it and if you preach standards, I'll say your not preaching to me, thats only for ministers wives to follow). This is how I grew up alllllllll my life and I had to get outta churches that would stand for nothing and fall for anything. (sorry, not putting my race down, but since we are talking about a black religious organization, I thought I'd share from the inside the true problem). I just realised I might have just described a lot of churches that are black, white, latino and all other races......boy are we living in the last days.

Bottom line, as in any orgnization, PAW has become very political.

While my current church is now WPF (Formerly UPCI), when I travel I tend to go to PAW churches to get the "soulful" worship service I miss sometimes at my church. I have seen everything under the sun in most of the churches I visited and even the ones that keep the standard, when I come back and visit you can see the outward change.

Bottom line, when holiness stops being preached from the pulpit, it gives the membership the "go ahead" to do what they want. Now let me run outta here before all the liberals start to stone me......hey Im just the messanger.....
__________________
….and since Jesus Christ is the Almighty God, we cannot be defeated!

Last edited by PraiseHymn; 11-02-2011 at 07:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 11-03-2011, 01:21 AM
Jay's Avatar
Jay Jay is offline
Apostolic Pentecostal


 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 3,417
Re: WPF back to UPCI

Thanks for explaining it. I was afraid that you were going to say that. I hold that with the Bible. "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world."
__________________
I am an Apostolic Pentecostal. Apostolic in teaching, and Pentecostal in experience.

Visit me at www.jonathandtalbot.blogspot.com.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 11-06-2011, 10:30 PM
CC1's Avatar
CC1 CC1 is offline
Administrator


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,840
Re: WPF back to UPCI

Quote:
Originally Posted by PraiseHymn View Post
What happened in the PAW is no different that what happened (or is currently happening) to most conservative Holiness churches. Holiness is no longer preached. Instead, everyone is following after the almighty dollar instead of God Almighty.

* Inward holiness is not preached anymore.

* Outward standards arent preached anymore.

* Trinitarians crept in and started to preach on the local and national level which caused an outcry amongst the churches that still hold to the truth.

* Typical scandals involving money, sex, and drugs (not saying that I know for sure of someone who used drugs, I just assume on that one) all of this caused people to be hurt and leave the organization and vow never to go back to strict holiness.

* Apostolic Doctrine is certainly NOT being preached in the churches. Its rare to hear the word Apostolic in a PAW church now UNLESS the word "Apostolic" is in the church name. A lot of PAW churches took Pentecostal or Apostolic out of there church name and renamed them Family Worship Center or "Christian Church".

* PAW does not want to be exclusive anymore when it comes to the Name of Jesus but inclusive of all who call themselves Christian.

* The title "Jesus Only" is at the top of the PAW National Seal that can be found on banners and official paper. Well, the liberals wanted to snatch that out and leave it blank and the conservatives had a fit.

* Jesus Name Baptism still takes place in all PAW churches however some now do it sporadicaly while others (i.e. Noel Jones Church) wont say it aloud over the pulpit but they wait until you get to the altar and personaly ask you if you want to be baptised in Jesus Name (I witness this for myself at a service there).

COOLJC (Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ) has gone this route too which is the second largest black Oneness Pentecostal organization. The problem in my community (speaking of my race, my people, african americans), we have a problem with obediance and we love kepping up with the Jones's (i.e. if the mega trinitarian churches that come on tv speak in tongues and shout and dont have a dress code, why should we....Im gonna put my pants on and dare the Bishop to say something to me...I wont ever give a dime to this church again, you watch, I'll fix him). Dont tell us how to live for God (we got that already), dont tell us to be faithful to church (I will come when I want to come and if you dont speak to me I'll have a fit and you might not see me for a month) and please dont restrict me in what I want to wear (I'll put my pants on, earrings and paint my face and sit in the choir stand cause I felt like it and if you preach standards, I'll say your not preaching to me, thats only for ministers wives to follow). This is how I grew up alllllllll my life and I had to get outta churches that would stand for nothing and fall for anything. (sorry, not putting my race down, but since we are talking about a black religious organization, I thought I'd share from the inside the true problem). I just realised I might have just described a lot of churches that are black, white, latino and all other races......boy are we living in the last days.

Bottom line, as in any orgnization, PAW has become very political.

While my current church is now WPF (Formerly UPCI), when I travel I tend to go to PAW churches to get the "soulful" worship service I miss sometimes at my church. I have seen everything under the sun in most of the churches I visited and even the ones that keep the standard, when I come back and visit you can see the outward change.

Bottom line, when holiness stops being preached from the pulpit, it gives the membership the "go ahead" to do what they want. Now let me run outta here before all the liberals start to stone me......hey Im just the messanger.....
PraiseHymn,

Has it ever crossed your mind that perhaps a lot of the people you say have left the outward dress code have done so because they believe it is extra biblical rather than because they "have a problem with obedience"?
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"

Titus2woman on AF
F


"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.

"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.

"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."

Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thomas Fudges' Letter to Non-UPCI Brethern on the 2004 UPCI Symposium on his book. Neck Fellowship Hall 13 12-13-2007 11:03 AM
This Is Upci ? Bishop1 Fellowship Hall 74 08-07-2007 09:39 AM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by Salome

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.