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  #211  
Old 11-03-2019, 04:06 PM
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Re: Book of Enoch, 1 Peter, 2nd Peter, Jude parall

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I'll check out the thoughts presented.
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  #212  
Old 11-11-2019, 11:12 PM
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Re: Book of Enoch, 1 Peter, 2nd Peter, Jude parall

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Esaias, have you taken your thoughts here and put them into pdf form?
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  #213  
Old 11-30-2019, 06:05 PM
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Re: Book of Enoch, 1 Peter, 2nd Peter, Jude parall

I am still waiting for my autographed copy of Esaias' book. How about a YouTube audio about this discussion?
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  #214  
Old 11-30-2019, 07:27 PM
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Re: Book of Enoch, 1 Peter, 2nd Peter, Jude parall

I'm still working on my prophecy primer!!! lol
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  #215  
Old 11-30-2019, 10:04 PM
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Re: Book of Enoch, 1 Peter, 2nd Peter, Jude parall

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I'm still working on my prophecy primer!!! lol
I understand, you have a lot going on. I know the feeling.
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  #216  
Old 12-08-2019, 08:35 AM
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Re: Book of Enoch, 1 Peter, 2nd Peter, Jude parall

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Easias had some very good thoughts concerning book of Enoch, Jude, 1 Peter, and 2 Peter. I would like to investigate his thoughts on this subject and hope others would join in with their thoughts. It all started in a thread entitled "You Must Listen To this" concerning Dave Wilkerson telling everyone how tired he is that the rest of Christendom isn't up to snuff. Anyway, Mike the Disciple brought up hell as being the grave, I then asked him what he thought about hell in 2 Peter 2:4. Mike then threw it back on me saying he was limited in its meaning concerning hell, so I explained my thoughts on the word τάρταρον found in 2 Peter 2:4. Easias then asked if I believe that Peter said it because he was refuting Ancient Jewish literature. What Easias presented (I believe) was very interesting.


Here is my first post which was addressed to Mike the Disciple.

Hades was the place of rest, the final abode of shadows, while Tartarus was the place where the punishment fit the crime. The prison of the Titans, and the wicked elite. It is explained in Homeric literature as being as far from hades as the heaven is from earth. This is how the ancient Greeks, Persians, Latins, and Hellenized Judeans would of understood 2 Peter 2:4, due to the word also being found in the book of Job 41:24 in the LXX. τὸν δὲ τάρταρον τῆς ἀβύσσου ὥσπερ αἰχμάλωτον· ἐλογίσατο ἄβυσσον εἰς περίπατον, the lowest part of the deep as a captive: he reckons the deep as his range. The very deep, liar of the monster Leviathan. Tartarus was understood as the place of everlasting torment where no sleep or rest was found for the ones who offended god, in this case it was the Greek/Roman god Ζεύς. The evil King Σίσυφος had to push a rock up a hill and then watch it roll back down. This was done to him because he boasted about being more clever than Ζεύς, so therefore this torment was devised. Ἰξίων was chained to a wheel that eternally turned, without hesitation. Τάνταλος stole the food of the gods, and mutilated his own son to feed to the gods at a banquet to test their omniscience. Τάνταλος was to be punished by standing neck-deep in a pool of water, always thirsty but never able to catch a drink. A bowl filled with fruit hung above his head, but whenever he tried to reach the fruit the wind would blow the swinging bowl away out of his reach. Θησέας even though he was a hero, was also detained in Tartarus. When he was in his 20s Θησέας lost reverence for the gods and together with his best friend, Πειρίθους, decided they would marry daughters of Ζεύς: Πειρίθους desired Ελένη and Θησέας desired Περσεφόνη. First they kidnapped Ελένη, who was only ten (her brothers, Κάστορας and Πολυδεύκης, rescued her). Then they attempted to kidnap Περσεφόνη from the Underworld. Hades greeted his guests and invited them to sit in the stone chair of Λήθη, the chair of Forgetfulness. Ηρακλής later succeeded in rescuing Θησέας but not Πειρίθους. When Peter uses Tartarus in 2 Peter 2:4 it could only be understood as a place of one, eternal torment, two the place of no rest, three the abode, of wicked supernatural beings, monsters, giants, and wicked, and impious men. Definitely not, the grave.

Also the Hellenized Ethiopian Jews used the word Tartarus in their Book of Enoch. An arch angel named Uriel is supposed to be the guardian of the abyss, called Tartarus.
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  #217  
Old 12-08-2019, 04:44 PM
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Re: Book of Enoch, 1 Peter, 2nd Peter, Jude parall

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I'm still working on my prophecy primer!!! lol
I pray I live to see it
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  #218  
Old 12-08-2019, 10:07 PM
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Re: Book of Enoch, 1 Peter, 2nd Peter, Jude parall

Lol! I'm sorry, that last comment just struck me as funny. I apologise, I've been pretty busy lately. Will try to get it wrapped up soon.

Btw, happy birthday!
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  #219  
Old 12-09-2019, 03:34 AM
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Re: Book of Enoch, 1 Peter, 2nd Peter, Jude parall

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Lol! I'm sorry, that last comment just struck me as funny. I apologise, I've been pretty busy lately. Will try to get it wrapped up soon.

Btw, happy birthday!
it was meant as a joke, and also as a motivational point
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  #220  
Old 12-09-2019, 08:15 PM
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Re: Book of Enoch, 1 Peter, 2nd Peter, Jude parall

Just a note to say I have considered Esaias' viewpoint on this, and am not convinced, but have not totally scrapped it either. I still find it hard to think Jesus and the apostles wrote of things that were blatantly wrong in order to use sinners' own ammo against them.
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