Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Fellowship Hall > Fellowship Hall
Facebook

Notices

Fellowship Hall The place to go for Fellowship & Fun!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #171  
Old 11-13-2019, 10:21 PM
mfblume's Avatar
mfblume mfblume is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 36,874
Re: Glorified Flesh?

My book on this issue is now in ebook form...



https://www.amazon.com/What-Body-The.../dp/B081CF3KXJ
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.

"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Reply With Quote
  #172  
Old 11-14-2019, 11:04 PM
Esaias's Avatar
Esaias Esaias is offline
Master ThreadKiller


 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 20,949
Re: Glorified Flesh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
I do not think the "leap" as it were, is unwarranted. Here is how:

Referring back to my comments regarding 1 Corinthians 15:45, wherein we are informed that, while the first Adam was made a living soul, the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. You will note that in the KJV, "was made" in the second clause is in italics. This is because in Greek, the verb is not repeated twice; rather it is twice applied, first to the first Adam, then to the last Adam.

You can see it clearly here:

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_c...ians/15-45.htm

Also at the link, you can see that the verb translated as "was made" in the first clause is egeneto, from ginomai.

This is very important to note, because it's the same verb in the same grammatical case as used by John in John 1:14 regarding how the "Word was made flesh".

See here: https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/1-14.htm

So then, the Logos was made flesh according to John. This occurred at the Incarnation inside Mary's womb. From that moment forward, Christ was living in the "days of His flesh" from Hebrews 5:7.

But sometime after His death, burial, and resurrection, and I would argue, ascension, this last Adam (and note the name Adam is from Hebrew and simply means "human"; see here: https://biblehub.com/hebrew/120.htm) "was made" a quickening spirit.

It was a transition, first, from spirit as Logos to flesh, then as Logos as flesh, to spirit.

If we genuinely believe the Logos was made into a true, physical, human man, then it stands to good reason that this true, physical, human man, was likewise made into a quickening spirit.

And spirits do not have flesh and bone, per the Lord Jesus in Luke 24:39.

Seems like case closed, to me.
The quickening Spirit is the Holy Ghost. "Now, the Lord is that Spirit" etc. So Jesus is the Holy Ghost.

Does this mean He is not a human? No, He is a human.

"He maketh His angels SPIRITS..." So angels are spirits. Yet they are not omnipresent and finite, therefore they have bodies of some kind. They are spirits, yet have bodies. Jesus is a quickening (life giving) Spirit, yet He has a body. When He incarnated, did He CEASE to be the Word?

I do not understand "and the Word was made/became lesh" to mean a transformation FROM one essence to another, as if the Word was transformed into something else ceasing to be what it was. Rather, the Word took on a complete human nature, adding it to His own pre-incarnate nature. Likewise, the Man, in being made a life giving spirit, does not cease to be a man.

As for the days of His flesh, I don't see any reason to think that is an ontological statement about His flesh, but rather an idiom referring His pre-glorification existence. And as I pointed out, if "days of His flesh" implies He has "days without flesh", there is nothing that disallows those non flesh days being PRE incarnation or which requires them to be post ascension.
__________________
Visit the Apostolic House Church YouTube Channel!

Instead of google, use www.yandex.com


Biblical Worship - free pdf http://www.pdf-archive.com/2016/02/21/biblicalworship4/

Conditional immortality proven - http://www.robertwr.com/

Reply With Quote
  #173  
Old 11-14-2019, 11:13 PM
Esaias's Avatar
Esaias Esaias is offline
Master ThreadKiller


 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 20,949
Re: Glorified Flesh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
Esaias,
Another important information that it is missing in the English translations is that “dead” in the “baptized for the dead” is actually plural, so it can’t refer to Christ’s death alone.
Ah, interesting. It could be then that "the dead" refers to the whole category of "the dead", so that baptism "for the dead" indicates getting baptised to take your place among all the dead (clearly with a view towards resurrection). "Firstbegotten of the dead" means firstbegotten from the ranks of all the dead. So "the dead" in our verse would likely mean "all that have died". Paul asks what's the point of baptism if the dead do not rise.

On further thought, he seems to be saying "if the dead do not rise, then you were baptised for the dead, NOT THE LIVING/RESURRECTED, and therefore what's the benefit? Where's the hope?" etc. I dont have my Greek handy at the moment, I wonder what the word "for" is in Greek in this verse?
__________________
Visit the Apostolic House Church YouTube Channel!

Instead of google, use www.yandex.com


Biblical Worship - free pdf http://www.pdf-archive.com/2016/02/21/biblicalworship4/

Conditional immortality proven - http://www.robertwr.com/

Reply With Quote
  #174  
Old 11-15-2019, 07:35 AM
mfblume's Avatar
mfblume mfblume is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 36,874
Re: Glorified Flesh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
The quickening Spirit is the Holy Ghost. "Now, the Lord is that Spirit" etc. So Jesus is the Holy Ghost.

Does this mean He is not a human? No, He is a human.

"He maketh His angels SPIRITS..." So angels are spirits. Yet they are not omnipresent and finite, therefore they have bodies of some kind. They are spirits, yet have bodies. Jesus is a quickening (life giving) Spirit, yet He has a body. When He incarnated, did He CEASE to be the Word?

I do not understand "and the Word was made/became lesh" to mean a transformation FROM one essence to another, as if the Word was transformed into something else ceasing to be what it was. Rather, the Word took on a complete human nature, adding it to His own pre-incarnate nature. Likewise, the Man, in being made a life giving spirit, does not cease to be a man.

As for the days of His flesh, I don't see any reason to think that is an ontological statement about His flesh, but rather an idiom referring His pre-glorification existence. And as I pointed out, if "days of His flesh" implies He has "days without flesh", there is nothing that disallows those non flesh days being PRE incarnation or which requires them to be post ascension.
Amen.


When John said the word became flesh, he added the qualifier, and dwelt among us, which means tabernacled. So, it did not turn into flesh, but was in a Tabernacle. That's why he called his body a temple shortly after in the same book.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.

"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
God IS Pouring Out His Spirit Upon ALL Flesh--Not Just Oneness Flesh acharris Fellowship Hall 90 02-19-2011 09:10 PM
When was Jesus GLORIFIED? POST RESURRECTION OR AFTER HIS ASCENSION OR OTHER? SDG The D.A.'s Office 20 12-16-2007 10:17 AM
glorified human nature? Arphaxad Deep Waters 20 07-11-2007 10:57 AM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by coksiw

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.