"Calm Before The Storm"

[n david]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Bundy damage documented-- totaling in the MILLIONS.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b014d3fe22eff9


http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-sta...fuge_will.html

There's a couple things wrong with this:

First, the totals in both articles are what the standoff cost the government. That includes wages (including overtime), cost of gas, cost of any "specialist" they bring in such as negotiators. The article also states it includes the costs of UPGRADES to the facility.

As far as the "damage" the Bundy supporters caused: the article points out that they left it "a mess," there was part of a drywall which was broken, there was a hole dug outside for (gasp) pooping, there was trash left.

What awful damage. Of course the government is going to inflate the costs, because it's the government. What a normal cleaning crew could do for $1,000, the government claims it costs $1.7 million (per the article). Not MILLIONS.

Now, let's compare damages with that of the fine folks of BLM. A couple years ago, in Ferguson, blm rioted, burned buildings, looted businesses, burned cars and caused $5.7 million in property damage. That does not include costs of police and national guard.

Where's your outrage about that?

Baltimore, MD. BLM protest caused $9 MILLION in property damages alone. The city estimated the costs of declaring emergency, police, national guard, clean up, etc at $20 MILLION.

Now, where is your outrage over that?

You highlight the Bundy supporters leaving trash behind, breaking a wall and digging a hole for pooping, but conveniently ignore the real damages done by BLM.

And it's not just you, the media and leftists refuse to acknowledge or condemn the damages, firebombing of businesses or looting which has taken place at multiple BLM riots.

http://www.aim.org/on-target-blog/re...n-5-7-million/

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...513-story.html

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattve...n-tab-n2006664

[n david]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

As far as I know, every action that ANTIFA has taken has been in the context of a protest. Al-Quaeda are terrorists. To date, ANTIFA has not taken actions of violence.

"Antifa has not taken actions of violence." Hahahaha You serious, bro? Do you watch the news?

Look at the definition again, you don't have to blow yourself up to be a terrorist. You don't have to behead people to be a terrorist.

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Here is an article that explains why ANTIFA cannot be labeled a terrorist group (by the Feds).

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...ections-241653

Except Antifa isn't addressed in the article. It's about white supremacists.

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

So I specifically avoided using race for this very reason-- to avoid this accusation, even though I knew how some would take what I was saying.

I do not believe in damaging property in the context of protest.

If people are going to damage property, they should not damage property that does not make sense to damage. Do not act like you haven't seen riots in times past where everything in the vicinity of a riot is destroyed. I have seen this and have lowered my head in disgust as the businesses and sometimes peoples homes are destroyed for no reason at all.

So this is why I said that if they are going to damage property, it needs to send a message that is congruent with their cause.

Not once did I mention race because I do not want to see ANYONE's churches, homes or businesses destroyed in the course of a riot.

I specifically avoided using race.

My apologies. You mentioned urban buildings and businesses. Typically the word is associated with race, however wrong it may be.

Thank the 1980s radio and music scene for turning the meaning of urban into something to describe race.

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Hopefully you can understand what I am trying to say. It may sound contradictory, but if you would just consider past riots where the damage has been widespread and meaningless, that kind of property destruction is vain and does nothing to accomplish the goals of political protest.

I still do not understand what a meaningful property would be? What is okay to damage?

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by n david

There's a couple things wrong with this:

First, the totals in both articles are what the standoff cost the government. That includes wages (including overtime), cost of gas, cost of any "specialist" they bring in such as negotiators. The article also states it includes the costs of UPGRADES to the facility.

As far as the "damage" the Bundy supporters caused: the article points out that they left it "a mess," there was part of a drywall which was broken, there was a hole dug outside for (gasp) pooping, there was trash left.

What awful damage. Of course the government is going to inflate the costs, because it's the government. What a normal cleaning crew could do for $1,000, the government claims it costs $1.7 million (per the article). Not MILLIONS.

Now, let's compare damages with that of the fine folks of BLM. A couple years ago, in Ferguson, blm rioted, burned buildings, looted businesses, burned cars and caused $5.7 million in property damage. That does not include costs of police and national guard.

Where's your outrage about that?

Baltimore, MD. BLM protest caused $9 MILLION in property damages alone. The city estimated the costs of declaring emergency, police, national guard, clean up, etc at $20 MILLION.

Now, where is your outrage over that?

You highlight the Bundy supporters leaving trash behind, breaking a wall and digging a hole for pooping, but conveniently ignore the real damages done by BLM.

And it's not just you, the media and leftists refuse to acknowledge or condemn the damages, firebombing of businesses or looting which has taken place at multiple BLM riots.

http://www.aim.org/on-target-blog/re...n-5-7-million/

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...513-story.html

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattve...n-tab-n2006664

Sigh...

First, the totals of Bundy damage was literally in the millions-- read again.

I posted about the Bundy damage because you said there wasn't any. Clearly there was.

The information presented was not in a spirit of outrage.

(Another sad attempt to try to use my words against me with the logic failing... )

I presented the information to show how that AMERICANS have a history of destroying property in the midst of protest.

For Bundy and his people to intentionally cause damage to Federal property fits perfectly with the reasons they are protesting.


BLM protests police brutality and burns down the local CVS.

See how that does not fit with the reasons they are protesting?

Destroying property, whether local, state, or federal government property, or private property-- the destruction of property in protest and riot is wrong. It is illegal. It is not justifiable.

And it is as American as apple pie.

You ask what would be a meaningful property to destroy in protest. I say the answer would depend on the reasons for the protest.

Historically, Americans of all stripes, colors, and ideologies have participated in protest where property has been damaged or destroyed. It isn't right, but our history is peppered with property destruction out of protest.

Hopefully, I have made myself clear and have escaped the corner you were trying to paint me into.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Another article stating the cost of Buddy's protest to be in the millions...

because now we're discussing the inclusion or exclusion of the letter "s".


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...qaPygN&ampcf=1

[Jermyn Davidson]

For the record, i was wrong to frame the actions of antifa as non-violent.

They are the textbook definition of a terrorist organization.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Another article stating the cost of Buddy's protest to be in the millions...

because now we're discussing the inclusion or exclusion of the letter "s".


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...qaPygN&ampcf=1

Nope. Read again.

HuffPo: "$1.7 million has been flagged just for repairs and cleaning of the reserve itself. the nearly $2 million cleanup cost is a “moving figure” subject to change as the agency conducts a thorough inventory of what’s broken and missing."

"The total cost of the occupation stands at about $6 million to the federal government."

Again, HuffPo puts direct cost of cleaning up at $1.7 million.

Raw Story: "The wildlife service also spent roughly $2.3 million on law enforcement and estimates it will spend $1.7 million to restore damaged property and replace missing items, Holm said."

Your new link: "The immediate restoration process at Malheur also cost another $1.7 million so far."

So again, the actual costs of damages is $1.7 million. The additional $5.3 million is cost of moving people to hotels ($2 million) and cost of paying government people and operation expenses during the standoff.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

When asked "what storm," the POTUS said, "you'll find out."

Okay... That sounds ominous.

Well, with that in mind, I was wondering whose side will y'all be on when it all goes down?

1.) The United States of America
2.) The Allied States of America
3.) The Federal States of America
4.) The Independent Republic of Texas
5.) California
6.) The Free State of Missouri
7.) The Republic of Arkansas
8.) Louisiana
9.) Independent States of America

..or...

10.) The Coalition Forces

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Understand that my spirit has always born witness with your spirit, and you have been a bigger encouragement to me in the past than you realize.

It amazes me that God can use a guy like me, with the issues I have, to encourage another Christian many, many miles away. Only God can orchestrate something like that.

If I ever helped you, it was God doing the Work and it was you letting Him do the work. If I had a small part in touching your life, I am glad that in His Grace He didn't let me miss my moment.

This part of your post reminded me of these lyrics:

"Father God, I am clay in your hands
Help me to stay that way through all life's demands
'Cause they chip and they nag and they pull at me
And every little thing I make up my mind to be
Like I'm gonna be a daddy whose in the mix
And I'm gonna be a husband who stays legit
And I pray that I'm an man who rises above
The road that is wide and filled with self love"

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

It amazes me that God can use a guy like me, with the issues I have, to encourage another Christian many, many miles away. Only God can orchestrate something like that.

If I ever helped you, it was God doing the Work and it was you letting Him do the work. If I had a small part in touching your life, I am glad that in His Grace He didn't let me miss my moment.

This part of your post reminded me of these lyrics:

"Father God, I am clay in your hands
Help me to stay that way through all life's demands
'Cause they chip and they nag and they pull at me
And every little thing I make up my mind to be
Like I'm gonna be a daddy whose in the mix
And I'm gonna be a husband who stays legit
And I pray that I'm an man who rises above
The road that is wide and filled with self love"

Amen. It is amazing the people God puts in our path.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

I wholeheartedly disagree with you. They aren't terrorists. Freedom to gather and protest is American as apple pie.

If there is to be any destruction, I hope it is the destruction of meaningful targets and not urban drugstores, other urban businesses, churches and homes.

I DO NOT ADVOCATE VIOLENT RIOTING OR DESTRUCTION OF PROPERTY!


Destruction of property USUALLY sours any sympathies that could have been gained from the general public.

Destruction of propertry in the name of protest is exactly what happened with the Bundy gang. It is exactly what has happened with other protests. It is exactly what happened at the Boston Tea Party.

What is a meaningful target?