Concealed Carry in Church

[Esaias]

I could see REQUIRING an armed person as opening the door to lots of liability on the part of the ins. co.

Also, designating one or more persons as armed security might run afoul of licensing requirements for security guards?

Hey, check this out:

" Do you own or manage a small to mid-sized enterprise? Perhaps you're a senior official at your place of worship or a school administrator. Owners, managers, officials and administrators all face a common security challenge - in the event of a violent confrontation, how do you defend your employees, worshippers, students and teachers until the arrival of law enforcement?

ORGANIZE, TRAIN AND OPERATE YOUR OWN SECURITY CADRE

DSI has been at the forefront of creating programs and strategies that train individuals in organizations to defend their life and property. Our Team membership to the online defense academy is designed to provide the content, instruction, plans and resources for small teams to learn how to defend life and property. The cost for a Team membership to the online defense academy is $89 per month for a team of 6 individuals."
https://distributedsecurity.com/star...d-schools.html

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Jito463

Well, if that leads to lower premiums, I think we need to check into that. As many of us who have CCH permits, I'd say our premiums should be mighty low indeed.

Kinda scary thought, huh?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

My parents' church, when I was a kid, was in the ghetto in NE DC-- lots of crime, drugs, murder, and every other immorality you can think of to include rape.

One Sunday morning, a man who was the husband of one of the choir members came into the church. He stormed the pew where the choir was and began to beat the choir member with his fists.

My Dad and his assistant Pastor immediately rushed the man. The choir members tried to stop him. I remember my Dad and the assistant Pastor holding the man away from the choir member (his soon-to-be-ex-wife). The assistant Pastor told the assaulter, "Don't make me have to hurt you Tim. Don't make me have to hurt you."

The choir member had a bruised cheek, was emotionally shaken up, but was relatively fine. The police came and the assaulter went to jail.

My Dad finished the service off with a talk about what had just happened. He spoke about how that there is a time and place for everything and that he was glad that the situation was neutralized WITHOUT having to kill that man "inside the House of God".

My Dad made it clear that he and the Assistant Pastor are not against the use of deadly force, but it had to be the last resort.

Certainly shouldn't be the first resort, unless bullets are flying and it has now become the only option.

Where I work we have an active shooter training class. The philosophy is Run, Hide, Fight. If at all possible, everyone should remove themselves from the location of the shooter. If unable to entirely remove one's self from the location of the shooter, one should seek to hide (ALWAYS turn cell phone off or turn down ringtone to silent). Only when one has exhausted all attempts to remove one's self from the location of the shooter, or has failed to find sufficient hiding, that is when one is expected to take a stand. And in this situation numbers are encouraged. It is more likely that more than one individual taking a stand against a shooter will neutralize him.

Of course the training is assuming that all involved are unarmed. I wonder what the official line would be if those with CCW were considered.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Certainly shouldn't be the first resort, unless bullets are flying and it has now become the only option.

Where I work we have an active shooter training class. The philosophy is Run, Hide, Fight. If at all possible, everyone should remove themselves from the location of the shooter. If unable to entirely remove one's self from the location of the shooter, one should seek to hide (ALWAYS turn cell phone off or turn down ringtone to silent). Only when one has exhausted all attempts to remove one's self from the location of the shooter, or has failed to find sufficient hiding, that is when one is expected to take a stand. And in this situation numbers are encouraged. It is more likely that more than one individual taking a stand against a shooter will neutralize him.

Of course the training is assuming that all involved are unarmed. I wonder what the official line would be if those with CCW were considered.

I have given thought to what could be used as a weapon in this situation, I would grab the fire extinguisher that is outside my cube area and blast the shooter with that, hopefully others will help and take him down while he is being blasted. If further action is needed, I have an Xacto knife I can use on him.

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

Kinda scary thought, huh?

Why is that a scary thought?

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Jito463

Why is that a scary thought?

That church insurance has gotten to a place where having firearms present during church services is a savings consideration.

It's scary we've come to such a place.

[n david]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

One UPCI pastor I know told me his church insurance company insists they have at least one armed individual one site during services.

Anyone else heard of such a thing?

Originally Posted by TK Burk

Yes, lower premiums are why they insisted.

But I still had not heard that before.

Wow. I would think insurance rates would be more with armed people on site, due to liability. What happens if this lone gunman shoots a visitor?

Saddleback had a ministers conference and one session was dealing with legal issues. There was a story told by the legal representative of a church who was sued because someone was prayed for in a prayer line, fell out and hit their head on a chair.

Liability is something to consider when churches allow concealed weapons.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by n david

Wow. I would think insurance rates would be more with armed people on site, due to liability. What happens if this lone gunman shoots a visitor?

Saddleback had a ministers conference and one session was dealing with legal issues. There was a story told by the legal representative of a church who was sued because someone was prayed for in a prayer line, fell out and hit their head on a chair.

Liability is something to consider when churches allow concealed weapons.

I have to agree. Years ago we had a bat fly into our Sunday night service and flew all over. It caused an absolute meltdown--of men and women. One of the brothers stood on a back pew, smacked it down, and took it outside. I can only imagine how crazy a room full of Pentecostals would be if a shooter was in their service. Then add to that any (or all) who may be carrying shooting back. I don't know if that would be safer or not.

So, like you said, I also wondered how an insurance company would see that as a good thing. Maybe if the church had trained ushers that were in place for such a problem. But, again, I do not think I'd feel real safe with some of the ushers I've known--training or not.

But the pastor I spoke told me he had armed people (usually more than one) in every service, and that was something his insurance preferred.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Guns in Church?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

I have to agree. Years ago

we had a bat fly into our Sunday night service and flew all over.

It caused an absolute meltdown--of men and women. One of the brothers stood on a back pew, smacked it down, and took it outside. I can only imagine how crazy a room full of Pentecostals would be if a shooter was in their service. Then add to that any (or all) who may be carrying shooting back. I don't know if that would be safer or not.

So, like you said, I also wondered how an insurance company would see that as a good thing. Maybe if the church had trained ushers that were in place for such a problem. But, again, I do not think I'd feel real safe with some of the ushers I've known--training or not.

But the pastor I spoke told me he had armed people (usually more than one) in every service, and that was something his insurance preferred.

Bro, you never told me that Sean visited your church?