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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #1  
Old 08-06-2007, 09:39 PM
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"were The Disciples Saved Before Pentecost?"

What say Ye?..........
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Old 08-06-2007, 09:46 PM
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Well,

Their names were written in heaven Luke 10:20

and when Jesus spoke about the new birth or being born again He said "We are talking about things that we know and which we have seen." So, it sounds like the disciples were born again prior to Pentecost.

BUT
they hadn't spoken in tongues so they became unsaved and unregenerated until they (120 of the 500 disciples) spoke in tongues on Pentecost in Acts chapter 2.
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Old 08-07-2007, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by big-larry View Post
What say Ye?..........



Positionally yes, but technically no! For salvation was not even possible for anyone until Christ's death and resurrection, as peoples sins could not be removed by Christ's blood until after the resurrection. So the righteous dead who died in the OT were kept in a place called Abraham's Bossom until such time as whent he blood of Christ was applied and their souls then went immediately into God's presence in heaven.

The apostles were saved (positionally) before the cross, but as the blood of Christ had not yet been applied, they remained like every other OT saint in their sins and still awaiting salvation when the blood of Christ (i.e. his life) would then remove their sins. I guess that this happenned at the resurrection rather than pentecost, but I'm not certain.

Pentecost involved the giving of the Holy Spirit to the Church, this was a unique event which hasn't been repeated since. The apostles were both baptised and then filled with the Holy Spirit in this unique event.
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Old 08-07-2007, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam View Post
Well,

Their names were written in heaven Luke 10:20

and when Jesus spoke about the new birth or being born again He said "We are talking about things that we know and which we have seen." So, it sounds like the disciples were born again prior to Pentecost.

BUT
they hadn't spoken in tongues so they became unsaved and unregenerated until they (120 of the 500 disciples) spoke in tongues on Pentecost in Acts chapter 2.
I await the rebuttal to the TRUTH you've spoken.
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Old 08-07-2007, 12:47 PM
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Luke 10:20 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain
[A Public Domain Bible] [KJV at Zondervan] [Zondervan]

20Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

duh
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Old 08-07-2007, 08:15 PM
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Iron Bladder:

Positionally yes, but technically no! For salvation was not even possible for anyone until Christ's death and resurrection, as peoples sins could not be removed by Christ's blood until after the resurrection.


Big-larry reply:
How then could it be that Isaiah 53:5, was working, (present tense), 740 years before the event happened? I might add that in 1Peter 2:24, it is quoted in past tense.



Sam: BUT
they hadn't spoken in tongues so they became unsaved and unregenerated until they (120 of the 500 disciples) spoke in tongues on Pentecost in Acts chapter 2.



Big-larry reply:
How on Earth could they become unsaved, while they were following Jesus?
Doesn't that qualify them as disciples? Except Judas unfortunately.
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Old 08-07-2007, 08:38 PM
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They were saved - by and through faith - as they lived and followed Christ and His teaching. They were given authority to cast out devils, heal the sick and otherwise minister to people.

And Jesus did tell them to rejoice - not because they were able to cast out devils or because spirits were subject to them - but because their name was already written in heaven - in the Lamb's Book of Life. There was reservation already made for them to dwell there.
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Old 08-07-2007, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big-larry View Post
...
Big-larry reply:
How on Earth could they become unsaved, while they were following Jesus?
Doesn't that qualify them as disciples? Except Judas unfortunately.
I was just kidding about them becoming unsaved.
I believe they were saved before Pentecost.
I believe that Pentecost was a filling/baptizing/empowering experience for folks who were already saved, not a saving/regenerating experience for folks who were not saved.
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Old 08-12-2007, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam View Post
I was just kidding about them becoming unsaved.
I believe they were saved before Pentecost.
I believe that Pentecost was a filling/baptizing/empowering experience for folks who were already saved, not a saving/regenerating experience for folks who were not saved.
Thanks for the clarification.

I was right with you, agreeing all the way, until the part where you were "kidding." Then I wondered if there was some new doctrine that I had missed. Now I'm laughing at myself.

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Old 08-13-2007, 04:38 AM
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Big-larry reply:
How then could it be that Isaiah 53:5, was working, (present tense), 740 years before the event happened? .


Larry, the hebrew at Isaiah 53:1 doesn't have tenses and is written in what is called the prophetic perfect. All prophecy in the OT Hebrew is prophetic perfect, which simply means that God writes as if his promises were already accomplished. Possibly you'd be kind enough to explain your point at Isaiah 53:1, how does that somehow refute what I said? What's your point?

thanks
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