Divorce and remarriage

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by james34

Sorry the fornication clause doesn’t fit the rest of New Testament scripture. I may be off on the “ it being only for those who lived under the law”, but fornication is the act before marriage, so address it any way you like.

Jesus made the "pornea" clause in reference to putting away one's WIFE, answering the Pharisees' question on putting away one's WIFE. You obviously do not know what "pornea" means and why Christ chose that word.

[james34]

When Jesus said “From the beginning it was not so” , what did this mean?

I always say it’s hard to find someone in adultery , because those who are generally make up their own non biblical definition.

[james34]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Jesus made the "pornea" clause in reference to putting away one's WIFE, answering the Pharisees' question on putting away one's WIFE. You obviously do not know what "pornea" means and why Christ chose that word.

Like Marry and Joseph?

[james34]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Brother James, I am going to do my best to explain to you tactfully and respectfully how you are wrong. The problem with your doctrine lies in the incorrect definition of adultery and fornication. Please don’t let your ego prevent you from coming to the knowledge of the truth. The bolder portion above is a common misconception. It leads to the teaching of false doctrine. And my experience is that it all comes down to what fornication and adultery really mean. The correct definition. This post may run a little long but please read it and consider it carefully. Let’s begin with the official definitions of fornication and adultery.

noun
for·​ni·​ca·​tion | \ ˌfȯr-nə-ˈkā-shən \
Collegiate Definition
: consensual (see CONSENSUAL sense 2) sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other
— compare ADULTERY

noun
adul·​tery | \ ə-ˈdəl-t(ə-)rē \
plural adul​ter​ies
Collegiate Definition
: voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and someone other than that person's current spouse or partner
also : an act of adultery

So your definition of adultery is correct, but your definition of fornication is not. Because all adultery IS fornication. But all fornication is not necessarily adultery. In the same way that all roses are flowers but all flowers are certainly not roses. To commit adultery a person has to be married because adultery is sexual intercourse between someone who is married with someone whom they are not married to. This is also fornication.

However, if you carefully read the definition of fornication, you see that it is defined as consensual intercourse between two persons who are not married to each other. They may both be married, in which case it would be adultery as well. But regardless if they are both married to someone else or only one of them is, or neither of them are, it is fornication. But to commit adultery, a person must be married.

Fornication is the broader category that ALL consensual sex outside of marriage falls under. Adultery is fornication that is specific to married people having consensual sex with anyone who is not their spouse.

I hope this clears up some of the confusion.

To avoid fornication , let every man have his own wife.
How does getting married prevent fornication, if adultery is fornication?

[james34]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Brother James, I am going to do my best to explain to you tactfully and respectfully how you are wrong. The problem with your doctrine lies in the incorrect definition of adultery and fornication. Please don’t let your ego prevent you from coming to the knowledge of the truth. The bolder portion above is a common misconception. It leads to the teaching of false doctrine. And my experience is that it all comes down to what fornication and adultery really mean. The correct definition. This post may run a little long but please read it and consider it carefully. Let’s begin with the official definitions of fornication and adultery.

noun
for·​ni·​ca·​tion | \ ˌfȯr-nə-ˈkā-shən \
Collegiate Definition
: consensual (see CONSENSUAL sense 2) sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other
— compare ADULTERY

noun
adul·​tery | \ ə-ˈdəl-t(ə-)rē \
plural adul​ter​ies
Collegiate Definition
: voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and someone other than that person's current spouse or partner
also : an act of adultery

So your definition of adultery is correct, but your definition of fornication is not. Because all adultery IS fornication. But all fornication is not necessarily adultery. In the same way that all roses are flowers but all flowers are certainly not roses. To commit adultery a person has to be married because adultery is sexual intercourse between someone who is married with someone whom they are not married to. This is also fornication.

However, if you carefully read the definition of fornication, you see that it is defined as consensual intercourse between two persons who are not married to each other. They may both be married, in which case it would be adultery as well. But regardless if they are both married to someone else or only one of them is, or neither of them are, it is fornication. But to commit adultery, a person must be married.

Fornication is the broader category that ALL consensual sex outside of marriage falls under. Adultery is fornication that is specific to married people having consensual sex with anyone who is not their spouse.

I hope this clears up some of the confusion.

I am well aware of the idea that the word fornication includes adultery , I just do not find it hermeneutically correct. It seems fornication means adultery only in those instances where one is looking to justify the “innocent party” doctrine. The rise of adultery in our culture does not stem from the church having a better handle on the interpretation of the biblical definition of “fornication” or “adultery”,
but rather from a loss of having a handle on the subject. There was a time in the U.S., where the rate of divorce and remarriage ( especially in the church) was minimal at best. But as we can see on this forum , most “churches “ are in agreement with the world.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by james34

Like Marry and Joseph?

No. That is not what the Pharisees asked about.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by james34

I am well aware of the idea that the word fornication includes adultery , I just do not find it hermeneutically correct. It seems fornication means adultery only in those instances where one is looking to justify the “innocent party” doctrine. The rise of adultery in our culture does not stem from the church having a better handle on the interpretation of the biblical definition of “fornication” or “adultery”,
but rather from a loss of having a handle on the subject. There was a time in the U.S., where the rate of divorce and remarriage ( especially in the church) was minimal at best. But as we can see on this forum , most “churches “ are in agreement with the world.

Porneo would include any kind of unclean sexual behavior, such as bestiality. Christ includes it all.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by james34

When Jesus said “From the beginning it was not so” , what did this mean?

I always say it’s hard to find someone in adultery , because those who are generally make up their own non biblical definition.

Nobody denies what "from the beginning it was not so" means, except you. You added your own spin that divorce even for adultery was not permitted before the Law. But you offered no proof.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by james34

To avoid fornication , let every man have his own wife.
How does getting married prevent fornication, if adultery is fornication?

It says to avoid fornication. It doesn’t say to prevent fornication.

I think the context is that the sexual needs of the husband would be satisfied by the good wife, not as you seem to believe that it is impossible for a married man to commit fornication. Adultery is fornication committed by a person who is married. It is a scriptural definition.

I’ll respond with scripture to your next post which will verify that adultery is fornication.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Porneo would include any kind of unclean sexual behavior, such as bestiality. Christ includes it all.

This is true.