Pacifism

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Depends on the context.

First, the Proverbs are written sayings of wisdom and good sense, given from a King to his son the Prince, so the Prince can rule well and succeed after he ascends the throne.

As such, we have to be careful to observe that we are not Israelite princes ready to inherit the throne of David.

It doesn't mean we cannot glean and learn from the Proverbs, and to the degree that any of them are just good life advice, we can apply them practically to ourselves. But this particular Proverb has to do with injustice at the political level. If a governor is going to wrongly execute an innocent man, the Prince/King must intervene and deliver the innocent.

In our country, the President has the power, and perhaps, even the right, to officially pardon someone whose guilt is in question. He can stay an execution, and let someone go free. While not exactly the same thing, the idea is similar.

None of this advocates for or against pacificism, however. It just means that the proverbs shared in the original post can't be used to either justify or condemn pacificism, that is, the proverb isn't addressing pacificism as an issue.

I should make a note about my comment at the end.

The proverb isn't addressing the concept of pacificism at the local, individual saint level. It is addressing the need for action, even of using force, to save someone from being unjustly condemned to die, at the political level of leadership.

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

I should make a note about my comment at the end.

The proverb isn't addressing the concept of pacificism at the local, individual saint level. It is addressing the need for action, even of using force, to save someone from being unjustly condemned to die, at the political level of leadership.

That scripture opened the idea of the possibility of a responsibility to defend those in our care with force. I didnt use that as the focal point for my determination, but it was the pebble that got the avalanche going that allowed me to make a choice and under what circumstances and conditions Id make that choice.

[coksiw]

I agree completely. Esaias particularly has been a great blessing in this forum, teaching the Word, bringing clarity.

Not that others have not brought great points and teachings but Esaias’s in particular has been exceptional.

I really appreciate his ministering in this forum.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by coksiw

I agree completely. Esaias particularly has been a great blessing in this forum, teaching the Word, bringing clarity.

Not that others have not brought great points and teachings but Esaias’s in particular has been exceptional.

I really appreciate his ministering in this forum.

Amen

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by coksiw

I agree completely. Esaias particularly has been a great blessing in this forum, teaching the Word, bringing clarity.

Not that others have not brought great points and teachings but Esaias’s in particular has been exceptional.

I really appreciate his ministering in this forum.

Bro Esaias is a gifted teacher,
My favorite teacher.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

None of this advocates for or against pacificism, however. It just means that the proverbs shared in the original post can't be used to either justify or condemn pacificism, that is, the proverb isn't addressing pacificism as an issue.

I think pacifism is addressed more directly here:

Deuteronomy 20:8 KJV
And the officers shall speak further unto the people, and they shall say, What man is there that is fearful and fainthearted? let him go and return unto his house, lest his brethren's heart faint as well as his heart.

A man cannot be Lawfully coerced into war.

But there is also this:

Deuteronomy 17:6-7 KJV
At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death. [7] The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you.

Which indicates a genuine pacifist cannot Lawfully be a complaining witness in certain capital cases. That is, since the complaining witnesses are required to participate in the execution of the offender, if one is a pacifist, one would not be such a witness.

Although I believe the Bible teaches against pacifism, it seems it doesn't necessarily enforce the issue against the individual unless said individual is entrusted with an office that requires the use of force as part of one's appointed duties. In which case the pacifist would simply not be in said office.

I do believe the statements in Proverbs provide the general tenor of a "noble mentality" that all should aspire to. We should uphold the values of protecting the weak and innocent. This concept formed a core part of the various "Codes of Chivalry" in Christendom which were an idealized standard of conduct for all those who had the ability to actually do such things. The noble knight was brave, ergo all men should aspire to be brave. The noble knight defended the weak and innocent, ergo all men should aspire to defend the weak and innocent. Etc.

The ethical and character standards for leaders are meant to be examples for those led.