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  #31  
Old 01-15-2019, 07:57 AM
peter83 peter83 is offline
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Re: Oneness vs Monotheism

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Peter, you are not making sense. Your statements seem to contradict each other. I will just assume it is caused by the language barrier.
If you dont get it with Gino (he is too loud ) thren listen this brother too:
  #32  
Old 01-15-2019, 08:20 AM
Apostolic1ness Apostolic1ness is offline
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Re: Oneness vs Monotheism

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Originally Posted by peter83 View Post
blah blah baloh. I came to you with Scripture..what you foiund as heresy?
I believe Jesus is my Father .Jesus is my Lord and God..but not yours!
1st becsue you spioke bad to me (i am His child) and second because you said hersy the SDcriptures i spoke.
Is not Jesus the Son? if hes where the heresy?
You just know like every trinitarian that Jesus is God but anable to brake it down from Scripture...just like oneness neo trinitariians "Jesus is the I am from the Old"...yes is the I AM HE WHO IS (Father) AND WAS (Son) AND WE WHO COMES (Holy Spirit), that is my God...yours who is?

Tha Apostolic Oneness god? "the Father is acting to be the son,nut is actually the i am" wow wonderful explanation!
Keep in mind friend, When we say Jesus has two natires we mean Father (Deity) and Son (humanity) . The human was not God, not Father ...found me a verse wewre the body (Son) said ia m God or i am the Father.(when was on earth)
No one replying to you believes that God is flesh. We all know God is a spirit. And that Spirit formed for himself a fleshly tabernacle in the womb of a virgin. And that was Christ. known as the Son of God because the Spirit caused the conception. No one replying to you believes that God was born at Bethlehem but we all believe the son was born at Bethlehem. God caused the pregnancy of Mary therefore Jesus was the son of God and the son of man.

We know God as creator and Father because he created all things just as he created the body of Jesus, however the spirit of Jesus was the Lord from heaven "the Father", the Spirit of God. You seem to be missing the point of the incarnation. Jesus was not just a body with the Holy Ghost inside. He was a real man but also was the image of the invisible God, God manifest in flesh. (this does not mean his flesh was spirit. his flesh was corruptible like your and mine)

Apostolics do not say the Father was acting as the Son. So why do you keep saying that?

You did not address John 14:9 ...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father;

you did not address Colosians 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God,

you did not address 1Tim 3:16 God was manifest in the flesh...

Your comments seem to be stating that Jesus was just a glove that God put on. That is not the truth.

You keep saying that we cant explain who Jesus is but you keep repeating yourself and have not explained your position.
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  #33  
Old 01-15-2019, 09:20 AM
peter83 peter83 is offline
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Re: Oneness vs Monotheism

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Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness View Post
No one replying to you believes that God is flesh. We all know God is a spirit. And that Spirit formed for himself a fleshly tabernacle in the womb of a virgin. And that was Christ. known as the Son of God because the Spirit caused the conception. No one replying to you believes that God was born at Bethlehem but we all believe the son was born at Bethlehem. God caused the pregnancy of Mary therefore Jesus was the son of God and the son of man.

We know God as creator and Father because he created all things just as he created the body of Jesus, however the spirit of Jesus was the Lord from heaven "the Father", the Spirit of God. You seem to be missing the point of the incarnation. Jesus was not just a body with the Holy Ghost inside. He was a real man but also was the image of the invisible God, God manifest in flesh. (this does not mean his flesh was spirit. his flesh was corruptible like your and mine)

Apostolics do not say the Father was acting as the Son. So why do you keep saying that?

You did not address John 14:9 ...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father;

you did not address Colosians 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God,

you did not address 1Tim 3:16 God was manifest in the flesh...

Your comments seem to be stating that Jesus was just a glove that God put on. That is not the truth.

You keep saying that we cant explain who Jesus is but you keep repeating yourself and have not explained your position.
Sorry that comment was for an other brother (or sister propably) who spoke me bad.
You did not address John 14:9 ...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father;
The Son speaks and did not said i am the Father, but he who sees mr (the man) he sees the Father (inside me).
"so much time i am with you and you dont know me Philip? Everyonae who seess me he sees the Father...The works that I (Son) do i dont do by MYSELF,but eh FATHER WICH IS IN ME does the works"

you did not address Colosians 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God,amen God is Spirirt, and Jesus the Son weas the image of that Spirit, ir was the image of, not God himself


you did not address 1Tim 3:16 God was manifest in the flesh..
Amen God (Jeus) did a body and dwells in that body. That was the Son of God becose h was born of that Spirit and then when the child grew and did all the things that a Jew must do (the law) died for us. God resurrected him and gave him all his glory! The Spirit of God dwell and still dwells inside that body.That was the Son of God. Father came in the Son not as the Son and gave everything to His Son. even his name! That is the Spirit we have inside us, God in Chrsit, is the Spirit of Goid in the glorifioed hujman spirit of the Son, that is why he said "we will come and dwell in him" and other timew say that "the Spirit mediate for us" and other "God is inside you"
What bothers you ? really i can not understand what was so strange to you?
and yes ,many people keep telling that the Son is the Father, the God played roles or changed modes ,i listed many times those things. however i dont think all Oneness people believe that>
take this video, this brother too explains the same thing :
  #34  
Old 01-15-2019, 09:54 AM
Apostolic1ness Apostolic1ness is offline
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Re: Oneness vs Monotheism

[QUOTE=peter83;1556752]Sorry that comment was for an other brother (or sister propably) who spoke me bad.
You did not address John 14:9 ...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father;
The Son speaks and did not said i am the Father, but he who sees mr (the man) he sees the Father (inside me).
"so much time i am with you and you dont know me Philip? Everyonae who seess me he sees the Father...The works that I (Son) do i dont do by MYSELF,but eh FATHER WICH IS IN ME does the works"

you did not address Colosians 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God,amen God is Spirirt, and Jesus the Son weas the image of that Spirit, ir was the image of, not God himself


you did not address 1Tim 3:16 God was manifest in the flesh..
Amen God (Jeus) did a body and dwells in that body. That was the Son of God becose h was born of that Spirit and then when the child grew and did all the things that a Jew must do (the law) died for us. God resurrected him and gave him all his glory! The Spirit of God dwell and still dwells inside that body.That was the Son of God. Father came in the Son not as the Son and gave everything to His Son. even his name! That is the Spirit we have inside us, God in Chrsit, is the Spirit of Goid in the glorifioed hujman spirit of the Son, that is why he said "we will come and dwell in him" and other timew say that "the Spirit mediate for us" and other "God is inside you"
What bothers you ? really i can not understand what was so strange to you?
and yes ,many people keep telling that the Son is the Father, the God played roles or changed modes ,i listed many times those things. however i dont think all Oneness people believe that>
take this video, this brother too explains the same thing :

It seems you really are contradicting yourself. Example you say in one Post Jesus is the Father and another Post Jesus is not the Father.
You say in one post God was manifest IN the flesh. In another post you say Jesus is God's manifestation.
I think you should be consistent in you belief.
Do you believe the Son was the Father manifest in the flesh?
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  #35  
Old 01-15-2019, 11:01 AM
peter83 peter83 is offline
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Re: Oneness vs Monotheism

[QUOTE=Apostolic1ness;1556757]
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter83 View Post
Sorry that comment was for an other brother (or sister propably) who spoke me bad.
You did not address John 14:9 ...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father;
The Son speaks and did not said i am the Father, but he who sees mr (the man) he sees the Father (inside me).
"so much time i am with you and you dont know me Philip? Everyonae who seess me he sees the Father...The works that I (Son) do i dont do by MYSELF,but eh FATHER WICH IS IN ME does the works"

you did not address Colosians 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God,amen God is Spirirt, and Jesus the Son weas the image of that Spirit, ir was the image of, not God himself


you did not address 1Tim 3:16 God was manifest in the flesh..
Amen God (Jeus) did a body and dwells in that body. That was the Son of God becose h was born of that Spirit and then when the child grew and did all the things that a Jew must do (the law) died for us. God resurrected him and gave him all his glory! The Spirit of God dwell and still dwells inside that body.That was the Son of God. Father came in the Son not as the Son and gave everything to His Son. even his name! That is the Spirit we have inside us, God in Chrsit, is the Spirit of Goid in the glorifioed hujman spirit of the Son, that is why he said "we will come and dwell in him" and other timew say that "the Spirit mediate for us" and other "God is inside you"
What bothers you ? really i can not understand what was so strange to you?
and yes ,many people keep telling that the Son is the Father, the God played roles or changed modes ,i listed many times those things. however i dont think all Oneness people believe that>
take this video, this brother too explains the same thing :

It seems you really are contradicting yourself. Example you say in one Post 1)Jesus is the Father and another Post Jesus is not the Father.
2)You say in one post God was manifest IN the flesh. In another post you say Jesus is God's manifestation.
3)I think you should be consistent in you belief.
4)Do you believe the Son was the Father manifest in the flesh?
1)You missunderstand me.Or better you are between Scriopture and Oneness Jesus is the Father. and gave his name to His Son:
John 17:' Holy Father, keep through thine own name which thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we [are]." (original text)
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Right? So yes Jesus is the Faather manifest in flesh (he did not became flesh He came IN flesh.

2)And the Son yes i told both that is the image of the invisible God, nobody ever saw God ,but the Son revealed to us. God was in Christ. Christ means anointed. He was anointed by the Spirit of God. "God did Jesus both Lord and Christ" Glory to God.

3)My belief os consistent with Scripture. I am not oneness or trinitarian or anything. Not theology. Just Bible.

4) Here it is. I Believe Jesus was God in flesh ,amen
I dont believe that God became flesh, neither that the Son was God himself, for nobody can see God and live, He was his Son
(Father=Deity,Son=Humanity)

Do you listen that message (is small) and i think you will better understand the difference. God bless you more and more and give you everyday more revelation of His Son. Amen.
  #36  
Old 01-15-2019, 02:33 PM
Apostolic1ness Apostolic1ness is offline
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Re: Oneness vs Monotheism

[QUOTE=peter83;1556760][QUOTE=Apostolic1ness;1556757]

1)You missunderstand me.Or better you are between Scriopture and Oneness Jesus is the Father. and gave his name to His Son:
John 17:' Holy Father, keep through thine own name which thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we [are]." (original text)
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Right? So yes Jesus is the Faather manifest in flesh (he did not became flesh He came IN flesh.

2)And the Son yes i told both that is the image of the invisible God, nobody ever saw God ,but the Son revealed to us. God was in Christ. Christ means anointed. He was anointed by the Spirit of God. "God did Jesus both Lord and Christ" Glory to God.

3)My belief os consistent with Scripture. I am not oneness or trinitarian or anything. Not theology. Just Bible.

4) Here it is. I Believe Jesus was God in flesh ,amen
I dont believe that God became flesh, neither that the Son was God himself, for nobody can see God and live, He was his Son
(Father=Deity,Son=Humanity)

Do you listen that message (is small) and i think you will better understand the difference. God bless you more and more and give you everyday more revelation of His Son. Amen


I listened to the video. This man gives no information on his belief. He only said oneness is not a word found in the bible.

I agree the word oneness is not in the bible. Oneness is a word that describes the belief that God is one. And that is in the bible.

He says that oneness doctrine takes away from the doctrine of Jesus.
again he is wrong. The teaching that God is one exalts the doctrine of Christ and magnifies Jesus as the All Mighty God and Lord of lords.

It seems you nor the men in the videos can explain your views of Jesus and in no way have shown the oneness view to be in error.

The fact is the oneness doctrine can never be proven wrong.
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  #37  
Old 01-15-2019, 05:18 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Oneness vs Monotheism

"Word Prophet" has very little knowledge of what Oneness teaches. I have found him to be in error on ALL foundation doctrine except baptism in Jesus name.
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  #38  
Old 01-15-2019, 05:29 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Oneness vs Monotheism

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Originally Posted by peter83 View Post
Ye my Englis are bad, bat the Spiritual Language too is not oneness ,there is a problem and we as Church know what ""oneness" heresy is.
Is Jesus God? Yes.
I s the Son the Father or the image of God
Is the Son the invisible Spirit? Or the body that he came?
Was ever Gid became man? or was IN a man?
It make sense brother and there is a hell bound heresy that does not believe in the Son...they say "Goid came as the Son" or "the Son is a role of God" and so on..
This is not just me, many Church people told about that heresy.
If Jesus is God, then how can He not be the Father? Do you believe in more than one God?

High Priest is a role of Messiah. Yet He is also a real High Priest. So no contradiction between role and "real". Son is a role, and He is also a real Son. Again, there is no contradiction between the two.

Believing in the Son is about believing the man Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah, resurrected and immortal, the covering for our sins, our King and Priest, and indeed "God manifest in the flesh" and our Great God and Saviour.

Again, I think much of the difficulty here is the language issue. When you hear "God became a man" I think you might be misunderstanding what is intended.

And the word became ("was made") flesh. Flesh here doesn't just mean physical, it means the logos became human. Jesus is not just a physical body, He is a genuine and complete human being.

So the logos became a man.

But, the logos is Theos. Therefore, God was made flesh, which is the exact same as saying God became a human being.

The Bible says the LOGOS was God, and then became flesh. Therefore God became flesh. And flesh is not just skin, but human nature, ousia. So The Logos (which was God) became a male human being, anthropos, andros. And we saw His doxa, as of the only begotten Son.

The Son is Immanuel - "God-With-Us". He is God manifested in the flesh. He is the visible image of the invisible God, He is the True Ikon of God.

It is confusing to say "the Son is the Father" because people get confused by that. Jesus is the Son. But the Son is God-Incarnate, God manifested in human nature. So Jesus is also the Father (because He is God, and to us there is one God, the Father). As Isaiah said of the Son "His name shall be called the mighty God, the Father unto the age". (Isaiah 9:6).
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Last edited by Esaias; 01-15-2019 at 05:39 PM.
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  #39  
Old 01-15-2019, 05:52 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Oneness vs Monotheism

Oneness have allowed Trins to set the definition of "modalism". Its just a word that means God can be God and at the same time man. Trins say Oneness are modalist....and then give their.....own....definition of the term which to my knowledge no Oneness teacher believes.

They define it as God had to quit being God so he could become the Son of God. Then he had to quit being the Son so he could be the Spirit. Then sometimes he switches back and forth between the three.

If anyone knows a Oneness that teaches this let me know.
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  #40  
Old 01-16-2019, 12:54 AM
peter83 peter83 is offline
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Re: Oneness vs Monotheism

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
If Jesus is God, then how can He not be the Father? Do you believe in more than one God?

High Priest is a role of Messiah. Yet He is also a real High Priest. So no contradiction between role and "real". Son is a role, and He is also a real Son. Again, there is no contradiction between the two.

Believing in the Son is about believing the man Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah, resurrected and immortal, the covering for our sins, our King and Priest, and indeed "God manifest in the flesh" and our Great God and Saviour.

Again, I think much of the difficulty here is the language issue. When you hear "God became a man" I think you might be misunderstanding what is intended.

And the word became ("was made") flesh. Flesh here doesn't just mean physical, it means the logos became human. Jesus is not just a physical body, He is a genuine and complete human being.

So the logos became a man.

But, the logos is Theos. Therefore, God was made flesh, which is the exact same as saying God became a human being.

The Bible says the LOGOS was God, and then became flesh. Therefore God became flesh. And flesh is not just skin, but human nature, ousia. So The Logos (which was God) became a male human being, anthropos, andros. And we saw His doxa, as of the only begotten Son.

The Son is Immanuel - "God-With-Us". He is God manifested in the flesh. He is the visible image of the invisible God, He is the True Ikon of God.

It is confusing to say "the Son is the Father" because people get confused by that. Jesus is the Son. But the Son is God-Incarnate, God manifested in human nature. So Jesus is also the Father (because He is God, and to us there is one God, the Father). As Isaiah said of the Son "His name shall be called the mighty God, the Father unto the age". (Isaiah 9:6).
Ι did not said that Jesus is not the Father.
The problem is how?
Many people oversimplify . They say that the Son is the father too. or that God chaged modes, or he had roles etc.
The things you said are correct. Except that Gid became man,
Tha plan of God (logos) became man and God was in that man. That is God in flesh.
flesh=Son ,deity=Father. your view is good ,but there are many who dont believe in the Son and go to hell.
Son was real son and not a mode or a role of God, amen.
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