The Trouble With Patience

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

It's probably more about the guy across town.

When a guy worries about the money more than the message it's time to take a break from ministry. If you are worried the message you preach will effect your offerings, get a job outside the church and support yourself, then it won't be a factor.

Bro, we have guys on the west coast so worried about what the rest of the UPCI is doing..... on the other side of the continent, that they are about to break the fellowship in half. trust me, the UPCIs big issue isnt the conflict between the guy at "grace" and the guy at "first church"


but what do you know, your pastor doesnt allow compitition! (sorry I couldnt resist. I think your pastor has it right)

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

2. I would like to see a more stringent licensing process implemented.

I think it would do us good to limit the number of times men can come in and out of the organization. I think there should be minimum education requirements and/or testing. I also think we should rethink our anti-restoration attitude for ministers.

And perhaps they should have more than the local Pastors endorsment. Maybe 3 to 6 references other than Pastor. Two others from the local church, two from outside of church jobs, two from other district sources.

And maybe even a good background check.

Originally Posted by rrford

But Esther, in all honesty, if that is all one has how do they run the business side of the church?

WHile I understand your view I imagine there are some men out that fit your two criteria yet you would not let them be your pastor. JMHO.

There are many successful and good businessmen and businesswomen who do not have the kinds of education that some seem to feel is so necessary.

Pastors are qualified by experience with God, and not with Bible school or other education.

Education is good, but education neither prevents failure, nor guarentees success. The worst thing about this recent movement to more and more education is that Bible schools often have environments that actually work against spirituality. That is not a pleasant idea, and it is not necessary but it has often been found true.

It seems like, in the end, people are on their own and need to take their chances or heaven help us, pray in order to wisely elect leadership.

A man's Bible school certificate or even his baccalaureate or additional degrees would not be high on my list of criteria, if I were looking for help in the church, or even a successor. I have seen too many proud men sporting degrees who have scarce knowledge of spiritual things. There are plenty of organizational men willing to meet the criteria of their brethren but seem to simply echo popular ideas, and show no anointing of their own. It is really a cause for concern. I do not think that education plays a large part in our most pressing issues today.

Others will feel differently though and it is nice to be able to share thoughts with them.

[Felicity]

Pray in order to wisely elect leadership? What a novel idea! Heaven help us indeed!

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Bro, we have guys on the west coast so worried about what the rest of the UPCI is doing..... on the other side of the continent, that they are about to break the fellowship in half. trust me, the UPCIs big issue isnt the conflict between the guy at "grace" and the guy at "first church"


but what do you know, your pastor doesnt allow compitition! (sorry I couldnt resist. I think your pastor has it right)

There are plenty of other UPCI churchs in the area. Perhaps if more Pastors were like my Pastor they wouldn't have compitation either...

I try not to know what is going on in the Organization, execpt Jesus and Him crucified.

In all reality, I shun any type of politics in the Organization. I enjoy doing what I do and letting the Big Dogs worry about the rest....

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Advocate

A man's Bible school certificate or even his baccalaureate or additional degrees would not be high on my list of criteria, if I were looking for help in the church, or even a successor. I have seen too many proud men sporting degrees who have scarce knowledge of spiritual things. There are plenty of organizational men willing to meet the criteria of their brethren but seem to simply echo popular ideas, and show no anointing of their own. It is really a cause for concern. I do not think that education plays a large part in our most pressing issues today.

I agree!

Some of the best preachers and pastors on the planet today and that I grew up under never had much education. What they did have was the anointing and call of God on them, a knowledge of the Word of God and a love for people. It stood them and the people they pastored in good stead.

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Advocate

There are many successful and good businessmen and businesswomen who do not have the kinds of education that some seem to feel is so necessary.

Pastors are qualified by experience with God, and not with Bible school or other education.

Education is good, but education neither prevents failure, nor guarentees success. The worst thing about this recent movement to more and more education is that Bible schools often have environments that actually work against spirituality. That is not a pleasant idea, and it is not necessary but it has often been found true.

It seems like, in the end, people are on their own and need to take their chances or heaven help us, pray in order to wisely elect leadership.

A man's Bible school certificate or even his baccalaureate or additional degrees would not be high on my list of criteria, if I were looking for help in the church, or even a successor. I have seen too many proud men sporting degrees who have scarce knowledge of spiritual things. There are plenty of organizational men willing to meet the criteria of their brethren but seem to simply echo popular ideas, and show no anointing of their own. It is really a cause for concern. I do not think that education plays a large part in our most pressing issues today.

Others will feel differently though and it is nice to be able to share thoughts with them.

Good words.

As one who is where is is by hard work and OJT rather than a BS or Master Degree I can appreciate your comments.

Education sure can't hurt a serious man of God.. If that education is provided by the right people with the right knowledge?


Shouldn't we be bettering ourselves and learning more and more as much as possible?

I'm not talking about going out burying yourself in debt and getting a doctorate, but surely book learnin' isn't uv de debbew, is it?

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Ronzo

Education sure can't hurt a serious man of God.. If that education is provided by the right people with the right knowledge?


Shouldn't we be bettering ourselves and learning more and more as much as possible?

I'm not talking about going out burying yourself in debt and getting a doctorate, but surely book learnin' isn't uv de debbew, is it?

Education is a tool. How that tool is used determines if it's good or bad.

[Ferd]

On the subject of educatioin, I think there is a big difference between some of the great men that we have who have no formal education and young men graduating from highschool and thinking they dont need an education to preach.

honestly there is no excuse for an 18 year old kid to aviod a good education. even mechanics have to get some schooling...