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  #21  
Old 01-08-2019, 11:10 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: A Thought About Death - Please Respond

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bro Ramel Rush View Post
I see two opinions also. Although Esias makes good references I have leaned on, this one always pulls me back to consciousness after death;

Revelations 6:9 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that was slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held and they cried with a loud voice, saying How long, O Lord, holy and true dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth.

This descriptive act is taking place before the resurrection. Whether it is to be taken literally, God knows.
The souls of the martyrs are not enjoying heaven, but are under the altar. That is where the blood of sacrifices was poured out, at the base of the altar. So this is saying the martyrs have offered themselves sacrificially.

Their souls are crying out for vengeance. In Genesis 4:10, God told Cain his murdered brother's blood was crying out to God. And according to Genesis 9:4, Leviticus 17:11, 17:14, and Deuteronomy 12:23, the soul (nephesh, translated as "soul" and "life") is in the blood. In fact, Deuteronomy 12:23 specifically says the blood IS the soul (nephesh).

So souls crying out means their blood is demanding vengeance, which means their deaths require justice, and that God is fully cognizant of that fact. It does not mean disembodied spirits are hanging out under an actual altar up there somewhere yelling at God to punish those who persecuted them.
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  #22  
Old 01-09-2019, 12:16 PM
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BrainWashed BrainWashed is offline
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Re: A Thought About Death - Please Respond

Esias,

In your previous post, it reads that at judgement day god would extinguish those not written in the book of life.

Will they forever will be non-existent? Why the mention of hell fire and/or the unquenchable fire where the worm dieth not?


Last edited by BrainWashed; 01-09-2019 at 12:51 PM.
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  #23  
Old 01-09-2019, 04:18 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: A Thought About Death - Please Respond

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Originally Posted by BrainWashed View Post
Esias,

In your previous post, it reads that at judgement day god would extinguish those not written in the book of life.

Will they forever will be non-existent? Why the mention of hell fire and/or the unquenchable fire where the worm dieth not?

From my earlier post:

Isaiah 33

14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? 15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil; 16 He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure. 17 Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.
The prophet asks, "Who shall dwell with the devouring fire, and everlasting burnings?" Many people believe the wicked will dwell or live forever with the devouring fire and everlasting burnings in hell. But the Scripture says explicitly it is the righteous who shall dwell with the devouring fire and everlasting burnings! How can this be?

It is because the righteous shall live forever, whereas the wicked shall be consumed (burnt up) and will be no more. The devouring fire is the consuming fire, which is GOD HIMSELF:

Deuteronomy 4

24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.

Hebrews 12

29 For our God is a consuming fire.
God Himself is the consuming fire who, in His judgment, destroys the wicked. The righteous, however, live forever with Him. This is illustrated in symbolic form in the Revelation:
Revelation 20

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Death and hell (Hades, the grave) delivered up the dead who were then judged. This means people coming back to life, out of the grave, resurrection. Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire, which is the SECOND death. And those not in the Book of Life are likewise cast unto the lake of fire.

(end quote)

The fire is unquenchable because it cannot be stopped. It is everlasting because God is a consuming fire, and God is eternal or e erlasting.

Eternal judgment signifies the permanency of judgment, there is no reversal. The wicked will "be no more", there is no coming back from the second death.

The undying worm - consider it is the worm that does not die, not the wicked that do not die. Jesus used that idea when referring to Gehenna, Jerusalem's garbage dump. It was always burning, and the worms were always present feeding on the refuse. Jesus used this place as a metaphor or symbol of judgment. He was not trying to say there are immortal worms in hell.
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Last edited by Esaias; 01-09-2019 at 04:20 PM.
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  #24  
Old 01-09-2019, 05:38 PM
phareztamar phareztamar is offline
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Re: A Thought About Death - Please Respond

according to the preacher (eccl.) the spirit returns to God who gave it, and the flesh returns to the dust(decomposes). my question is where does the soul reside as it awaits resurrection morning? in the casket? in the empty skull cavity (after decomposition)? in the empty chest cavity? in some remote location (hades or sheol)? thanx
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  #25  
Old 01-09-2019, 06:07 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: A Thought About Death - Please Respond

Quote:
Originally Posted by phareztamar View Post
according to the preacher (eccl.) the spirit returns to God who gave it, and the flesh returns to the dust(decomposes). my question is where does the soul reside as it awaits resurrection morning? in the casket? in the empty skull cavity (after decomposition)? in the empty chest cavity? in some remote location (hades or sheol)? thanx
Your question is addressed in my original post on the subject:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Psalm 16

8 I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved. 9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope. 10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
David affirmed that his flesh would rest in hope. That is, his flesh body was not doomed to eternal destruction because of death. There was hope, not just for David's soul, but for his very flesh. The reason? Because he was confident that his soul would not remain in hell (Hades, or Sheol, that is, the grave). The soul would come out of the grave, and THIS is said to be the cause for his flesh resting in hope. In other words, the flesh was expected to live again precisely because the soul would not remain in the grave. The soul coming out of the grave is what would free the flesh from death. Or in other words, the flesh would rise when the soul came out of the grave.

What is the soul? Generally speaking, it is whole person:
Genesis 2

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
The person is a living soul. It is a living soul because animating spirit has been joined to flesh. At death, the spirit departs from the flesh, and the person is no longer a living soul.

At resurrection, spirit and flesh are joined together once again, and the individual lives again, has consciousness, perception, can do things once more, activity resumes. This is another reason death is Biblically identified as "sleep", because of the resurrection. As a man lays down and goes unconscious, ceasing activity, in sleep, yet rises in the morning, awakened and conscious, so the person lies down in death, unconscious and inactive, until rising and awakening once more in resurrection.
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