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  #51  
Old 09-10-2019, 06:01 PM
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Re: Women Keeping Silence: What I Teach

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Originally Posted by Sister Alvear View Post
and leave the village to die without the saving knowledge of Christ?
Who holds the key to death and hell? You? Me? The Church? Or Jesus?

What can anyone do that Christ Himself cannot do? Who draws souls to the Father? The Spirit or the Bride? Who was lifted up so the world will come to the cross? Jesus or the Church?

Do we offend God and the Word by overstepping our bounds and reducing ourselves to fulfilling things He has not only not called us to do, but in fact has commanded us not to do, just so His will, in our minds, can be fulfilled?

What, for example, should a man do, if and when there is no woman present? Fulfill the role of a woman? We know this to be absurd. But if no man is present, but only a woman, we think, hey, it's gotta get done, so go for it? Would you have a man fulfill Titus 2:3-5 if no elder woman was present? Should widowers be placed on the church dole per 1 Timothy 5:9-11?

It doesn't work like that. If you comb the Scriptures and see where anyone overstepped their bounds of authority to do things their own way, they inevitably were punished by God.

Nothing has changed.

The Tabernacle and then the Temple are types for the Church. Imagine if anyone responsible for either the Tabernacle or the Temple decided to step out of their roles to do things their own way because someone else wasn't there to do the job. Do you suppose the Lord would have been pleased? Is it any different, then, in the church? Should a young, unmarried, no children man be consecrated as a bishop, for example, just because no man is present who qualifies?

All the women Paul mentioned by name in his epistles who he wrote labored with him in the Gospel: where are they in Acts, apart from a small reference to Priscilla? Lydia?

Where are the women who did "the same things" as Paul and his team of evangelists? Did Luke or Paul forget about them? Did they forget to mention how these women from the Epistles were there in the streets preaching and exhorting and testifying to the risen Messiah, with signs and wonders confirming the Word they shared?

I mean no offense to anyone, but I just don't see it. Rather, I see clear teaching in the Scriptures that cannot and has never been abrogated, and ought not to be tried, lest condemnation from God ensues.
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Last edited by votivesoul; 09-10-2019 at 06:04 PM.
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  #52  
Old 09-10-2019, 06:06 PM
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Re: Women Keeping Silence: What I Teach

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Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
I am glad that I follow good leadership.

You can cue to the 1:49 marker. He is right.
For his sake before the Lord, I hope he is (James 3:1).
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  #53  
Old 09-10-2019, 11:04 PM
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Re: Women Keeping Silence: What I Teach

If no men, so the women take up the role of men, the role of a God ordained sent messenger, to "bring the saving knowledge" to the village?

Who are in other words being taught non apostolic doctrine in the name of Jesus? Did God raise up the local village catholic church to save the village cause there were no apostolics around? Well maybe He did, to prep the soil so to say. But are those catholic priests escaping the lake of fire?

Didnt Jesus say something about who was getting into the kingdom? Not those who did great things for Jesus, but those who obeyed God? Does God call people to disobey His instructions?
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  #54  
Old 09-10-2019, 11:06 PM
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Re: Women Keeping Silence: What I Teach

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Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
Who holds the key to death and hell? You? Me? The Church? Or Jesus?

What can anyone do that Christ Himself cannot do? Who draws souls to the Father? The Spirit or the Bride? Who was lifted up so the world will come to the cross? Jesus or the Church?

Do we offend God and the Word by overstepping our bounds and reducing ourselves to fulfilling things He has not only not called us to do, but in fact has commanded us not to do, just so His will, in our minds, can be fulfilled?

What, for example, should a man do, if and when there is no woman present? Fulfill the role of a woman? We know this to be absurd. But if no man is present, but only a woman, we think, hey, it's gotta get done, so go for it? Would you have a man fulfill Titus 2:3-5 if no elder woman was present? Should widowers be placed on the church dole per 1 Timothy 5:9-11?

It doesn't work like that. If you comb the Scriptures and see where anyone overstepped their bounds of authority to do things their own way, they inevitably were punished by God.

Nothing has changed.

The Tabernacle and then the Temple are types for the Church. Imagine if anyone responsible for either the Tabernacle or the Temple decided to step out of their roles to do things their own way because someone else wasn't there to do the job. Do you suppose the Lord would have been pleased? Is it any different, then, in the church? Should a young, unmarried, no children man be consecrated as a bishop, for example, just because no man is present who qualifies?

All the women Paul mentioned by name in his epistles who he wrote labored with him in the Gospel: where are they in Acts, apart from a small reference to Priscilla? Lydia?

Where are the women who did "the same things" as Paul and his team of evangelists? Did Luke or Paul forget about them? Did they forget to mention how these women from the Epistles were there in the streets preaching and exhorting and testifying to the risen Messiah, with signs and wonders confirming the Word they shared?

I mean no offense to anyone, but I just don't see it. Rather, I see clear teaching in the Scriptures that cannot and has never been abrogated, and ought not to be tried, lest condemnation from God ensues.


This is clear and undeniable truth, right here.
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  #55  
Old 09-11-2019, 09:38 AM
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Re: Women Keeping Silence: What I Teach

Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
Who holds the key to death and hell? You? Me? The Church? Or Jesus?

What can anyone do that Christ Himself cannot do? Who draws souls to the Father? The Spirit or the Bride? Who was lifted up so the world will come to the cross? Jesus or the Church?

Do we offend God and the Word by overstepping our bounds and reducing ourselves to fulfilling things He has not only not called us to do, but in fact has commanded us not to do, just so His will, in our minds, can be fulfilled?

What, for example, should a man do, if and when there is no woman present? Fulfill the role of a woman? We know this to be absurd. But if no man is present, but only a woman, we think, hey, it's gotta get done, so go for it? Would you have a man fulfill Titus 2:3-5 if no elder woman was present? Should widowers be placed on the church dole per 1 Timothy 5:9-11?

It doesn't work like that. If you comb the Scriptures and see where anyone overstepped their bounds of authority to do things their own way, they inevitably were punished by God.

Nothing has changed.

The Tabernacle and then the Temple are types for the Church. Imagine if anyone responsible for either the Tabernacle or the Temple decided to step out of their roles to do things their own way because someone else wasn't there to do the job. Do you suppose the Lord would have been pleased? Is it any different, then, in the church? Should a young, unmarried, no children man be consecrated as a bishop, for example, just because no man is present who qualifies?

All the women Paul mentioned by name in his epistles who he wrote labored with him in the Gospel: where are they in Acts, apart from a small reference to Priscilla? Lydia?

Where are the women who did "the same things" as Paul and his team of evangelists? Did Luke or Paul forget about them? Did they forget to mention how these women from the Epistles were there in the streets preaching and exhorting and testifying to the risen Messiah, with signs and wonders confirming the Word they shared?

I mean no offense to anyone, but I just don't see it. Rather, I see clear teaching in the Scriptures that cannot and has never been abrogated, and ought not to be tried, lest condemnation from God ensues.
A "small" part regarding Priscilla and Lydia? Do you think that they accomplished a "small" part?

What about Acts 21:8-9? "Leaving the next day, we reached Caesarea and stayed at the house of Philip the evangelist, one of the Seven.
He had four unmarried daughters who prophesied.

His "whole" family dedicated to the service of God. I am sure he probably had sons who were also dedicated as well, but not mentioned.

There are many people who were never mentioned at all, men or women. Yet, the women mentioned show that they were also included in the work of the ministry. I thank God for that.

No need to argue as I believe Sister Alvear would say. She goes about her every day being used of God in every way. And I am sure she thinks nothing of it, as it is her calling and her duty.




2 Cor 12:9-10 "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong." (NIV)
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  #56  
Old 09-11-2019, 09:47 AM
peter83 peter83 is offline
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Re: Women Keeping Silence: What I Teach

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
A "small" part regarding Priscilla and Lydia? Do you think that they accomplished a "small" part?

What about Acts 21:8-9? "Leaving the next day, we reached Caesarea and stayed at the house of Philip the evangelist, one of the Seven.
He had four unmarried daughters who prophesied.

His "whole" family dedicated to the service of God. I am sure he probably had sons who were also dedicated as well, but not mentioned.

There are many people who were never mentioned at all, men or women. Yet, the women mentioned show that they were also included in the work of the ministry. I thank God for that.

No need to argue as I believe Sister Alvear would say. She goes about her every day being used of God in every way. And I am sure she thinks nothing of it, as it is her calling and her duty.




2 Cor 12:9-10 "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong." (NIV)
Ι will quote my post if you want to read it (Bible only).
I dont know who is downplay the role of a woman today . (God downplay a woman? by wants you with a quiet precious spirit? / or Satan, that want you make noises in the pulpit like a man? and men whisper with the modern gay voice "praise the Lord sister"???? sister the problem is why some think "downplay" your role by not allowing you be what you really are. As a waman you have a real job (not a role to play) and as woman who wants to labour you already have enough to care, you dont want to put a "be better than Mike" game.
I mean downplay is when someone still from you the things that Lord given you and fools you that you have to be "like men" or something antagonistic.
Sister, we (men and women) wrestling and fighting together for our salvation and the love of the Truth.
But this does not mean you have to do exactly what a man makes. God put a different between man and woman and this is not "downplay" , that is find your real self, your real destiny.
Our Modern Society hides your uniqueness and the diversity that God gave us/
Sister is a benefit be a real holy woman of God!!!
(if you want read the verses i quote on the previous and read them for yourself. Let "commentators" and theologians go to hell alone, you can only see how God want you as a holy woman in Scriptures)
Peace to you.
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  #57  
Old 09-11-2019, 10:08 AM
peter83 peter83 is offline
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Re: Women Keeping Silence: What I Teach

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
A "small" part regarding Priscilla and Lydia? Do you think that they accomplished a "small" part?

What about Acts 21:8-9? "Leaving the next day, we reached Caesarea and stayed at the house of Philip the evangelist, one of the Seven.
He had four unmarried daughters who prophesied.

His "whole" family dedicated to the service of God. I am sure he probably had sons who were also dedicated as well, but not mentioned.

There are many people who were never mentioned at all, men or women. Yet, the women mentioned show that they were also included in the work of the ministry. I thank God for that.

No need to argue as I believe Sister Alvear would say. She goes about her every day being used of God in every way. And I am sure she thinks nothing of it, as it is her calling and her duty.




2 Cor 12:9-10 "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong." (NIV)
YES:
Luke:8: 2 And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils 3 And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.
(we can see Apostles were men ,but there was many women served the Lord in a feminine way)
10:10 It was Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary [the mother] of James, and other [women that were] with them, which told these things unto the apostles.
(women testify! That was not Teaching neither Preaching, that was Testimony!)
Acts 1: 14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
(prayers! Yes women can pray out loud too! but with a veil)
8: 3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed [them] to prison. (women can be imprisoned like men and that means they will have the same tribulations and the same payment! )
1 Tim.2: 11 Let the woman learn
(yes women are to listen and learn the Word of God exactly like all men )
1 Cor.9 ; 5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and [as] the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
(a wife = a "woman sister", that was women who served them probably)
. 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with [her] head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
(yes evey woman can pray and prophesy)
1 Τιmothy 5: 9 Let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years old, having been the wife of one man,4 10 Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.
(as oposite to an elder who has to be worker of the Word, a woman has to be:
1)one time married
2)having good works (that how she serve the Lord ona feminine way)
3)She has to keep a house! to grow up and teach her children! Thats not so easy!
4)she can open her home to ministers, poor brother/sister, or for prayers etc.
5)washing feet that was common for ancient years men`s feet were dirty , this can apply on a woman today in other ways.
6)wow this is difficult too relieved the afflicted!this can be visit to hospital, helping elder moms, give money, giving food etc.
7)as you can see, every good work can be on a woman resume work except Preach the Word or Teach men
did says anywere she has to be "a good preacher"? No!
Τιtus 3: 3 The aged women likewise, that [they be] in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; 4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,4 5 [To be] discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed
1) teachers of good things That they may teach the young women(not men!)
2)young woman:teach their children ,love their husbands,home keepers,
Home Keepers is not an easy thing..
Please sisters, leave the pulpit alone and be a home keeper with " "a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price."

NO NO NO:
1 Tim.2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
(if Paul suffer not,then me neither)
1 Cor.14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
(women can not teach or preach over men. Jezebel was used her prophesy gift as an opportunity to preach/teach over men)
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.
(Does the Church teach to Christ? Or Christ teach the Church? The same is between men-women. )

(yes sister we dont have the mind of the world " which of us should be accounted the greatest.". Jesus said " but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve"
Society is trying to make you see man as antagonistic , but all those things God told a woman must do are not "small" ,neither "little" things.
We just have deterrent roles ,
Priscilla served like all women served Jesus (helping ,cooking, giving,washing, giving testimonies etc.) She also gave her house for Church attendance !!!
the "four unmarried daughters who prophesied" you mention were prophesying! as i quote ,yes women can and should prophesy ,praying, teaching children, teaching other women, heal the sick, giving terstimonies.
They van NOTY Teach ,Preach, God Never ever never called a woman Pastor ,Apostle etc.
So if is not in the Bible, ...find your purpose as a woman and dont be ashamed for how God make you! Finally imagine stand before the Lord and cancel all your work as in vain!!!
Peace to you.
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  #58  
Old 09-15-2019, 01:34 PM
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votivesoul votivesoul is offline
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Re: Women Keeping Silence: What I Teach

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
A "small" part regarding Priscilla and Lydia? Do you think that they accomplished a "small" part?

What about Acts 21:8-9? "Leaving the next day, we reached Caesarea and stayed at the house of Philip the evangelist, one of the Seven.
He had four unmarried daughters who prophesied.

His "whole" family dedicated to the service of God. I am sure he probably had sons who were also dedicated as well, but not mentioned.

There are many people who were never mentioned at all, men or women. Yet, the women mentioned show that they were also included in the work of the ministry. I thank God for that.

No need to argue as I believe Sister Alvear would say. She goes about her every day being used of God in every way. And I am sure she thinks nothing of it, as it is her calling and her duty.




2 Cor 12:9-10 "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong." (NIV)
First, I do not see this as an argument. Rather, it's a discussion wherein we all are attempting to assert and articulate our particular positions. This is healthy and good as far as I am concerned.

Secondly, in regards to Philip's four daughters, you might notice something:

1.) They are virgins, that is, unmarried. There is a clear distinction between the unmarried and the married woman in the Scriptures.

2.) All the text states is that they prophesied. This is something I have already affirmed in this thread is allowable according to the Holy Scriptures per 1 Corinthians 11. So, there is no "aha" moment here. So, good for them. They were used by the Holy Spirit to exhort, comfort, and edify the people of God.

3.) There is no reason to assume Philip had sons at all.

4.) You notice there is no mention of Philip's wife. I wonder why?

As far as Sister Alvear is concerned, I judge her not. To her own Master and her own head she gives an account. She owes me no explanation or apology. But if she desires to know why I believe what I believe and to read what I think the Scriptures teach in this or any other regard, she is free to ask any and all questions she likes. I do not think you need to champion her, then, in this thread. She isn't under attack. Not that I can see, at least.
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  #59  
Old 09-15-2019, 01:36 PM
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Re: Women Keeping Silence: What I Teach

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Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
First, I do not see this as an argument. Rather, it's a discussion wherein we all are attempting to assert and articulate our particular positions. This is healthy and good as far as I am concerned.

Secondly, in regards to Philip's four daughters, you might notice something:

1.) They are virgins, that is, unmarried. There is a clear distinction between the unmarried and the married woman in the Scriptures.

2.) All the text states is that they prophesied. This is something I have already affirmed in this thread is allowable according to the Holy Scriptures per 1 Corinthians 11. So, there is no "aha" moment here. So, good for them. They were used by the Holy Spirit to exhort, comfort, and edify the people of God.

3.) There is no reason to assume Philip had sons at all.

4.) You notice there is no mention of Philip's wife. I wonder why?

As far as Sister Alvear is concerned, I judge her not. To her own Master and her own head she gives an account. She owes me no explanation or apology. But if she desires to know why I believe what I believe and to read what I think the Scriptures teach in this or any other regard, she is free to ask any and all questions she likes. I do not think you need to champion her, then, in this thread. She isn't under attack. Not that I can see, at least.
Let me also add in regards to Priscilla and Lydia. Regarding their "small part". I meant in terms of how much is actually written of them. In the entirety of Acts, they make up less than 1% of the text. That is a small part, no matter how you slice it. Now, we might extrapolate some data from these mentions and get to some plausible guesses as to how they lived and served in the Kingdom of God, but all that would be would be supposition, not Book, Chapter, and Verse.
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Old 09-15-2019, 04:02 PM
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Re: Women Keeping Silence: What I Teach

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Let me also add in regards to Priscilla and Lydia. Regarding their "small part". I meant in terms of how much is actually written of them. In the entirety of Acts, they make up less than 1% of the text. That is a small part, no matter how you slice it. Now, we might extrapolate some data from these mentions and get to some plausible guesses as to how they lived and served in the Kingdom of God, but all that would be would be supposition, not Book, Chapter, and Verse.
Agree to disagree,,,
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