Tithing…Is it a command?

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

But the love offering as purposed by an individual in their heart is the only offering the New Testament Church sees. We don't plunder widows houses. To require tithing from some would be equal to extortion.

"plunder widows houses" is equivalent to teaching the tithe? Depending on your usage of the word "require" I guess you could be accurate. Teaching the tithe is not to be done under duress just as teaching prayer, study, church attendance. Ultimately it is the believer who is going to accept the Word of not, but that to think teaching the Word is some form of extortion would be totally ludicrous.

Can we find a single verse commanding "Christians" who are part of the "Church" to tithe in the New Testament?

Heb 7:5
5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham: (KJV)

So at the very least, while under the Law

One of the biggest mistakes non-tithers make is to think that the tithe is "under the law." The tithe is present WAY before the law was ever given.

For example, our pastor allowed us to go a season without tithing to pay our bills and keep from loosing our home.

That was mighty nice of him, but very unscriptural. What ever happened to believing God? Would it be okay for a pastor to give you approval to rob from the local 7/11 to catch up on past due bills? Why is theft in one area okay and not in another? Personally, I would find a new Pastor...and I don't just say that, if my Pastor ever recommended something like that I would actually get under a different Pastor.

Furthermore, I think the bigger question would be why were you loosing your house. Have you ever considered that correct tithing may have prevented the circumstances that caused you to get into the situation?

I am not making that statement for the purposes of this thread. I had a guy call me on Saturday with a financial problem. $1,500 shortfall for the month. He wanted me to write him a check and bail him out I talked to him about his faithfulness in giving.

Tithing is important in many ways...but the most important things are justice, mercy, and faith.

I do agree with you here. I am not saying that tithing is the most important thing known to man. It is the command of God and it works. So many Christians are trying to get God to bless what they are doing and God is saying do what I said because it is already blessed.

The mark of the Pharisee was exemplified in that they practiced tithing to the nth degree...yet they were unmerciful.

Not even close. The mark of the Pharisees were that they were separatist who focused more on their status, rules, and rituals than the heart. Yes they practiced tithing to the nth degree, but notice in the scripture you quoted Jesus said they should continue it, He only reprimanded them on the lack of mercy was was of a higher priority.

I think we've all known pastors and brethren who would command tithing without mercy for those who were overburdened in economic hard times.

your usage of the word "command" here makes me wonder if we are not more on the same page then different pages. God commands, not man. God in His commands still gives us the right to choose what we will do. If you are in a church where you have to do things under duress, whether it's tithing or any other thing you are in the wrong church.

Economic times has nothing to do with anything. God's system is not subject to the worlds system. You need to build your faith in God's system and know that when He has your life in control it doesn't matter what gas prices, taxation, inflation or anything else is going on. God is able to handle all things.

Matthew 23:14
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

Key word here is "devour". That is different than teaching God's system of economy. It has nothing to do with the tithe.

There is a time for tithing and giving. And there is also a time for being just and merciful.

Couldn't disagree with you more. There is not "a time" to be merciful. We are to be merciful as God is merciful. It's a lifestyle. The same is true in giving, we should live a giving lifestyle. There is however a time for tithing....every time we increase.

[ApostolicTexas]

Originally Posted by Rev

(Heb 7:1) For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
(Heb 7:2) To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
(Heb 7:3) Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
(Heb 7:4) Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

(Mat 23:23) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Tithing didn't start under the law, it started in Genesis.

If you are Abraham's seed you will also pay tithes just like he did!

Are you suggesting we take things not belonging to us and pay God a tenth? this is what Abraham did..He took of the spoils NOT from his own pocket even though scriptures says Abraham was very rich

[ApostolicTexas]

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

The fleecing of the flock mentality has been around for awhile From my experience it is promoted by those who don't give into the Kingdom.

To me the proof is in the pudding. In our church, I am part of the financial area and see who gives, how much, and so forth. It is without doubt or controversy that those who have the most problems, financially and physically are those who don't tithe. They give...as they can, but they don't tithe.

The tithe is not a fleece it is a release. Luke 6:38...give and it will come back to you. This is a biblical principle that the world understands better than the church.

• We will give 40 hours to receive a paycheck
  
• We will give into an investment in hopes of a return
  
• We will give of ourselves into a marriage for the return of a family

Yet Christians think it is cultish, control, trying to get money out of the pockets of the poor to give what God has said.

My my my..this places you in a sure seat of judgement doesnt it?..since you know who does and who does not..I would not want to be you..

[ApostolicTexas]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

Christians should support their local church.
Perhaps this article will explain this topic.
http://precious-testimonies.com/exho...uldwetithe.htm

I take it that you give what you can instead of a mandatory 10%...if so do you catch any flack from your pastor and not get used in your church?

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by ApostolicTexas

My my my..this places you in a sure seat of judgement doesnt it?..since you know who does and who does not..I would not want to be you..

How in the world would you even remotely relate this to judging? It is a statement of fact that I have witnessed. Those who don't follow God's pattern for giving consistently are having financial problems.

In fact, I can even broaden it. Those who are consistently late typically have financial problems. Check it out for yourself Watch those who come to church late (not once, but are typically late) you will find that they usually struggle financially.

[gloryseeker]

A lot of the posts in this thread (those who are against tithing) use words like fleecing, extortion, and so forth.

While the tithe is a command, so is living clean. However, no one can make you do anything. Condemnation is not in the Bible.

As for giving the Bible states:

2 Cor 9:7
7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
(KJV)

Where a lot of people make a mistake is that they no obligation to give because the church needs the money and if you can't give with a right heart you are not giving biblically.

The problem that churches have at offering time is the time to get money to pay the bills.

The problem Christians have at offering time is they are giving money for the church to pay the bills thus all the bad attitudes about how the church spends the money.

Tithes and offerings are an act of worship and are giving to the Lord. Do your part right, in the right church, and you don't have to worry about what happens to the money.

[Jason B]

Heb 7:5
5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham: (KJV)

One of the biggest mistakes non-tithers make is to think that the tithe is "under the law." The tithe is present WAY before the law was ever given.


Really? Don't you think it is quite a mistake to lump the ministry in with the levitical preisthood? Obviously there is no scripture for Gentile tithing (certainly with all of the writing and instruction that Paul gave to the heathen nation of his day he would have mentioned it once) or tithing after the law anywhere to be found in the new testament. All that tithing proponents can do is look at new testament scriptures that refer to the old covenant.

Matthew 23:23 is considered one of the best defenses for new testament tithing, very weak indeed. Would you also say that after someone recieves a healing they should offer animal sacrifice, seeing how Jesus commanded someone to do according to the law of moses upon being healed? ( Matthew 8:2-4)

Please don't take my comments to be contrary (which no one has yet, but this is a disclaimer for my future posts), I am glad for all in Christ having been born again of the water and Spirit.

[ChristopherHall]

Gloryseeker...

Was tithing commanded of Abraham or was it voluntary?

Can you provide Scripture showing that Abraham tithed OF HIS OWN GOODS consistently?

[ChristopherHall]

I think it's also important to look at Malachi at this point since some are accusing others of robbing God.

It is written,

" 7Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
8Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. " - Malachi 3:7-10

It's important to determine who God was speaking to in this passage. God was speaking to the priesthood here. God says that they (the priesthood) had robbed him...even the whole nation. So God includes two groups of robbers here. The priesthood and the people. Why? Verse 10 explains that they were not bringing the tithe into the storehouse. This is important. There were three tithes in the OT. There was the Levitical tithe to sustain the priests. There was the temple tithe to sustain the needs of the Temple. And then there was the poor tithe gathered every third year that was to be stored in the storehouse and then distributed to the widows and the needy. Notice that verse 10 mentions the storehouse. You see the priesthood and the people were refusing to collect and stock the storehouse for the poor. Oh, the priests were fat and happy...so also were the people. Yet the widow, the needy, the orphan, and the stranger were neglected in that the priests and the people had neglected the ordinance of God that commanded their care. IN THIS they had robbed God. This is in perfect harmony with the words of Jesus when he said,

"41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." - Matthew 25:41-46

Many fail to see the co-relation here, but in truth it is related. Those in Malachi (priest and congregation of Israel) neglected the poor tithe that stocked the storehouse and provided meat for the poor and needy. In doing this they robbed the widow and the needy...in robbing the widow and the needy...they had robbed God.

God's focus wasn't on "things" or even a priestly system...God was defending those who were in need. People. God put people over "things". This is something the Priest and the Pharisee will never be able to comprehend with all their religiosity.

[Digging4Truth]

I started a thread last year about what Malachi 3:8 may be referring to using the writings of one of Malachi's contemporaries (Nehemiah).

The thread is located here.