What's your view on Hell?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Any discussion of hell should probably include these verses:

Mark 9:

[43] And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
[44] Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
[45] And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
[46] Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
[47] And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
[48] Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Well there was a brief discussion of the verses from one side, which by the way was a pretty succinct synopsis of the subject (see what I said there? Say it real swiftly...)

Anyway, I'd like to add something, particularly as this passage is often used to support the idea that the wicked will be living forever in hell.

First, the word hell is gehenna, which is literally the name for the local Jerusalem garbage dump. I mean, it LITERALLY is what the word means. The garbage dump was essentially burning 24/7, burning the trash and refuse of the city. If you've never been to an actual city or county dumpsite, you ought to go visit at least once. You'll be struck with the INTENSITY of the literally "hellish" landscape that will confront your senses. Especially your sense of SMELL.

Anyways, as a giant city dumpsite, the place was full of worms (maggots) eating everything in there that wasn't burnt to ashes. The fires were ALWAYS going, and the maggots were ALWAYS present.

So Jesus says basically that if you have a cause for stumbling (meaning a cause or occasion for sinning) you need to knock it off right quick. It is IMPORTANT to cease from sin. Otherwise, you wind up in the garbage dump. Clearly, Jesus was using gehenna (the city garbage dump) as a symbol to represent the Final Judgment of God against sinners.

But some people take this passage to mean the sinners will not in fact die, but will instead live forever in these horrible conditions. People actually believe that sinners will "die not" but live forever in hell. Never mind that God specifically said "the soul that sinneth, it shall die", and that it was the serpent that said "You shall not surely die".

But what in the passage is actually living forever? The persons cast in there? NO. It is the WORM that doesn't die. The fire is not quenched, and their worms never die. So we have immortal, fireproof worms, feeding on the corpses of the wicked?

What is Jesus trying to say? That there are maggots with eternal life who chew on the wicked? No, he is saying there is no cure or reversal of the Judgment. It is called "eternal judgment" for a reason (Heb 6:2), namely because once sentence is passed there is no appeal and there is no expiration date. And what is the judgment? To be destroyed. If you threw some garbage into gehenna (the dump outside Jerusalem) it did not suddenly become immortal or indestructible. But once it was cast in it was not going to be rescued and drawn back out and restored to its former glory and status. It would be destroyed there. And there was no end to the maggots and the fires, so there was no chance gehenna would "run out" before doing its job.

Let's look at the issue of "eternal fire" or "unquenchable flames":

Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
(Jud 1:7)

Are Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them, STILL BURNING TO THIS DAY? No, they were destroyed, they are no more. The fire fell from heaven and destroyed them. That fire is called by Jude "eternal fire". Why does he use the term "eternal"? Why not just "fire"? Barnes has something interesting to say about that:

As here used, it cannot mean that the fires which consumed Sodom and Gomorrah were literally eternal, or were kept always burning, for that was not true. The expression seems to denote, in this connection, two things:

(1) That the destruction of the cities of the plain, with their inhabitants, was as entire and perpetual as if the fires had been always burning - the consumption was absolute and enduring - the sinners were wholly cut off, and the cities forever rendered desolate; and,

(2) That, in its nature and duration, this was a striking emblem of the destruction which will come upon the ungodly. I do not see that the apostle here means to affirm that those particular sinners who dwelt in Sodom would be punished forever, for his expressions do not directly affirm that, and his argument does not demand it; but still the “image” in his mind, in the destruction of those cities, was clearly that of the utter desolation and ruin of which this was the emblem; of the perpetual destruction of the wicked, like that of the cities of the plain. If this had not been the case, there was no reason why he should have used the word “eternal” - meaning here “perpetual” - since, if in his mind there was no image of future punishment, all that the argument would have demanded was the simple statement that they were cut off by fire.

The passage, then, cannot be used to prove that the particular dwellers in Sodom will be punished forever - whatever may be the truth on that point; but that there is a place of eternal punishment, of which that was a striking emblem. The meaning is, that the case was one which furnished a demonstration of the fact that God will punish sin; that this was an example of the punishment which God sometimes inflicts on sinners in this world, and a type of that eternal punishment which will be inflicted in the next.

"...this was an example of the punishment which God sometimes inflicts on sinners in this world, and a type of that eternal punishment which will be inflicted in the next."

An example of the type of future punishment, ie the Judgment... the cities were utterly destroyed and reduced to ash, much like what is described here:

For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
(Mal 4:1-3)

It is the "eternal fire" of God's righteous Judgment of which Sodom and company were an example. Thus it is called "eternal fire". Not because the fire which destroyed Sodom and Gomorrha is still literally burning today, but because it was the fire of God's WRATH, and is the example to mankind that at some point they too will be utterly and permanently destroyed (eternally) by the fire that not only kills bodies, but souls.

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
(Mat 25:41)

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
(Mat 25:46)

The everlasting fire/punishment is a reference to the everlasting destruction of the wicked:

Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
(2Th 1:9)

How does one get punished with an everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord? The word "from" here is apo which means "away from". It isn't saying the destruction comes from the presence of the Lord so much as it is saying the wicked are taken AWAY from the presence of the Lord in destruction. How does one go away from the presence of the Lord?

Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
(Psa 139:7-8)

You cannot "get away" from the presence of God:

That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
(Act 17:27-28)

Unless you no longer exist:

Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity. For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb.
(Psa 37:1-2)

For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
(Psa 37:9-11)

The eternal fire is the Final Judgment of God against the unrighteous, they will be destroyed from His presence FOREVER, which means they will no longer HAVE BEING, are like the chaff that is driven away by the wind (Psalm 1:4), are like fat that consumes away in the fire into smoke (Psalm 37: 18), they are melted like wax at the Presence of the Lord (Psalm 68:2).

[Amanah]

Beautiful work Bro Esaias.

[TJJJ]

So you guys believe in annihilation of the wicked, correct?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

So you guys believe in annihilation of the wicked, correct?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

Yes.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

So you guys believe in annihilation of the wicked, correct?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

Yes.

[shag]

Here was today’s lesson at this church… at the one hour mark….Jesus came to save us from hell. More than annihilation from this viewpoint.

[shag]

If sinners are also raised imperishable in the resurrection, how can they perish/be annihilated) in a second death?


https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/15-52.htm


Maybe only speaking of the saved, in the passage(s)?


Others verses that would tell if sinners are raised imperishable or not?

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by shag

If sinners are also raised imperishable in the resurrection, how can they perish/be annihilated) in a second death?


https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/15-52.htm


Maybe only speaking of the saved, per following verse?

The first resurrection will be the of the just to eternal life:

Revelation 20:1-5
King James Version
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

The 2nd Resurrection will be the unjust for judgement and the 2nd death.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

[Hoovie]

Been reading here….

Interesting thread.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shag

If sinners are also raised imperishable in the resurrection, how can they perish/be annihilated) in a second death?


https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/15-52.htm


Maybe only speaking of the saved, in the passage(s)?


Others verses that would tell if sinners are raised imperishable or not?

1 Corinthians 15:21-23 KJV
For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. [22] For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. [23] But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

He is primarily focusing on Christ and them that are His, not the lost. The lost will perish:

John 3:14-16 KJV
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: [15] That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. [16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Revelation 20:15 KJV
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.