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The D.A.'s Office The views expressed in this forum are those of the author and do not necessarily represent the views of AFF or the Admin of AFF. |
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10-03-2007, 10:11 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: "New" Mexico
Posts: 977
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea
That's why to see Peter's context one should examine his other sermons and thoughts throughout Acts ... like in chapter 3, 10, 11 and 15.
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Didn't Paul also mention baptism a time or two?
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10-03-2007, 10:27 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tv1a
Timlan, is there a book about the Bro. Yadon? I'd like to know more about him. Any suggestions?
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The only book I'm aware of that would give good insight into C. H. Yadon the man and his principles would be Fudge's "Christianity Without The Cross." The book gives some very insightful anecdotes about the Yadon family, principally Charles Haskell.
Yadon's sister, Grace Wiens, wrote a biography of their parents, Frank and Hattie Yadon, published by Word Aflame Press in 1977.
I seriously doubt this book is still in print or available.
Here is an interesting blurb about the book I found on the internet.
The Yadons were originally from Oklahoma and then migrated to the Pacific Northwest.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....phy/yadon.html
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10-03-2007, 10:36 PM
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Jesus' Name Pentecostal
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: near Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 17,805
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This was posted on another forum earlier this evening(Wednesday).
It is about the same thing we are talking about here.
I have the author's permission to post it on this forum.
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In your opinion, the light doctrine and the doctrine that one is saved at repentance are false doctrines.
There may be different ideas as to what the "light doctrine" is. The simplest explanation is that if a person walks in all the light he has, he will not wind up in the lake of fire. According to Bishop G.T. Haywood (an esteemed leader and teacher in Oneness Pentecost) and according to S.G. Norris (a UPC official for years and a man who taught many OP ministers and teachers) a person who had not obeyed Acts 2:38 but who had served God to the best of his understanding will be judged at the second resurrection or Great White Throne Judgment of Rev. 20:11-15, Matthew 25:31-46, Daniel 12:1-3 and will spend eternity on the new earth of 2 Peter 3:13. Bro. F.E. Curts, who was Dist. Supt. of the Ohio Dist of the UPC for several years and was considered an esteemed Bible teacher among OP's taught basically the same thing except he taught that those folks would go to Heaven instead of the new earth. So, the "light doctrine" as I have defined it here is very prevalent among OP ministers and teachers.
As far as salvation/regeneration at repentance, that was the original teaching of Oneness Pentecostals. Those folks were saved and knew they were saved before they ever heard about and experienced the Holy Ghost Baptism and certainly before they ever started baptizing in Jesus' Name. The idea that a person was not really saved until repentance plus water baptism plus Spirit baptism was a later teaching based upon the Roman Catholic and Campbellite teachings of baptismal regeneration.
When the UPC was formed in 1945 there were ministers in the new organization that believed in salvation/regeneration at repentance and others that believed it took repentance plus water baptism plus Spirit baptism to be saved/born again. We now call those folks "one-steppers" and "three-steppers." The first General Superintendent, the first Sunday School Director, the first Foreign Missions Director, and some General Board Members and Presbyters were "one-steppers."
So to now say in 2007 that the "light doctrine" and the "one-step salvation doctrine" are false doctrines is to deny our Apostolic Pentecostal heritage and denigrate our Godly pioneers and teachers, missionaries, leaders, and ministers who have faithfully served us throughout the years.
__________________
Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
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10-03-2007, 10:37 PM
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ultra con (at least here)
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Woodlands, Texas
Posts: 1,962
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Tim, is your PM working?
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10-03-2007, 10:41 PM
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A Prince of the Gospel!
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 604
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PP,
Wait a minute! There is surely nothing "mystical" at all about these beloved men. These were real men of God...searching out the Scriptures for their own salvation with fear and trembling. Each of us, including you, stand on their shoulders. They were not excluders; rather, they were includers. They simply were not "all or nothing," unthinking doctrinal robots. They were too busy preaching the glorious gospel of His death, burial and resurrection to contend for a particular scriptural interpretation or belief.
It was only later on that "little men" made "big issues" out of what really can be described as extra-biblical mandates. This has become especially dangerous when these extra-biblical issues are irrevocably attached to "true salvation."
Do we really believe as a movement that we possess an exclusive "corner" of God's love, grace and mercy? Please...we've gotten this idea from small-minded men, obsessed with personal kingdom building, and control-freak mentality. As an experienced pastor and evangelist, I've personally heard "these guys" say, "If you don't believe what I say, there's the door." That mentality is not evangelistic and it's not Christ-like. As a pastor, my thoughts were always (well, maybe not always with some folks!), "If I can keep them on the pews, I still have a chance to change their hearts, win their respect and grab their hands and make heaven together."
Sometime ago, our movement was hijacked by intolerance, bitterness and jealousy. And, unfortunately, we've been trying our very best to "rid ourselves of the unclean" as quickly as possible. This has been a "fear mentality" - an attitude of self-importance. All the while we have preached against the great demon, "humanism," or the worship of self...and in the practice of organization and control, we have been as humanistic as possible. Only in the last few years, have "the angels of our better nature" been able to wrestle some control out of the hands that would have destroyed the greater whole. Whether the liberal or conservative leave the organization is not the issue. The more dominate questions is whether we can "let this same mind be in you at was in Christ Jesus.
Ok, enough brilliance.
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10-03-2007, 10:47 PM
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Jesus' Name Pentecostal
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: near Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 17,805
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Thanks, Rev Buddy.
Well said.
__________________
Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
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10-03-2007, 11:08 PM
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Guest
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: H-Town, Texas
Posts: 18,009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
This was posted on another forum earlier this evening(Wednesday).
It is about the same thing we are talking about here.
I have the author's permission to post it on this forum.
-------------------
In your opinion, the light doctrine and the doctrine that one is saved at repentance are false doctrines.
There may be different ideas as to what the "light doctrine" is. The simplest explanation is that if a person walks in all the light he has, he will not wind up in the lake of fire. According to Bishop G.T. Haywood (an esteemed leader and teacher in Oneness Pentecost) and according to S.G. Norris (a UPC official for years and a man who taught many OP ministers and teachers) a person who had not obeyed Acts 2:38 but who had served God to the best of his understanding will be judged at the second resurrection or Great White Throne Judgment of Rev. 20:11-15, Matthew 25:31-46, Daniel 12:1-3 and will spend eternity on the new earth of 2 Peter 3:13. Bro. F.E. Curts, who was Dist. Supt. of the Ohio Dist of the UPC for several years and was considered an esteemed Bible teacher among OP's taught basically the same thing except he taught that those folks would go to Heaven instead of the new earth. So, the "light doctrine" as I have defined it here is very prevalent among OP ministers and teachers.
As far as salvation/regeneration at repentance, that was the original teaching of Oneness Pentecostals. Those folks were saved and knew they were saved before they ever heard about and experienced the Holy Ghost Baptism and certainly before they ever started baptizing in Jesus' Name. The idea that a person was not really saved until repentance plus water baptism plus Spirit baptism was a later teaching based upon the Roman Catholic and Campbellite teachings of baptismal regeneration.
When the UPC was formed in 1945 there were ministers in the new organization that believed in salvation/regeneration at repentance and others that believed it took repentance plus water baptism plus Spirit baptism to be saved/born again. We now call those folks "one-steppers" and "three-steppers." The first General Superintendent, the first Sunday School Director, the first Foreign Missions Director, and some General Board Members and Presbyters were "one-steppers."
So to now say in 2007 that the "light doctrine" and the "one-step salvation doctrine" are false doctrines is to deny our Apostolic Pentecostal heritage and denigrate our Godly pioneers and teachers, missionaries, leaders, and ministers who have faithfully served us throughout the years.
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TRUTH.
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10-03-2007, 11:09 PM
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Guest
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: H-Town, Texas
Posts: 18,009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RevBuddy
PP,
Wait a minute! There is surely nothing "mystical" at all about these beloved men. These were real men of God...searching out the Scriptures for their own salvation with fear and trembling. Each of us, including you, stand on their shoulders. They were not excluders; rather, they were includers. They simply were not "all or nothing," unthinking doctrinal robots. They were too busy preaching the glorious gospel of His death, burial and resurrection to contend for a particular scriptural interpretation or belief.
It was only later on that "little men" made "big issues" out of what really can be described as extra-biblical mandates. This has become especially dangerous when these extra-biblical issues are irrevocably attached to "true salvation."
Do we really believe as a movement that we possess an exclusive "corner" of God's love, grace and mercy? Please...we've gotten this idea from small-minded men, obsessed with personal kingdom building, and control-freak mentality. As an experienced pastor and evangelist, I've personally heard "these guys" say, "If you don't believe what I say, there's the door." That mentality is not evangelistic and it's not Christ-like. As a pastor, my thoughts were always (well, maybe not always with some folks!), "If I can keep them on the pews, I still have a chance to change their hearts, win their respect and grab their hands and make heaven together."
Sometime ago, our movement was hijacked by intolerance, bitterness and jealousy. And, unfortunately, we've been trying our very best to "rid ourselves of the unclean" as quickly as possible. This has been a "fear mentality" - an attitude of self-importance. All the while we have preached against the great demon, "humanism," or the worship of self...and in the practice of organization and control, we have been as humanistic as possible. Only in the last few years, have "the angels of our better nature" been able to wrestle some control out of the hands that would have destroyed the greater whole. Whether the liberal or conservative leave the organization is not the issue. The more dominate questions is whether we can "let this same mind be in you at was in Christ Jesus.
Ok, enough brilliance.
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MORE TRUTH.
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10-03-2007, 11:42 PM
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His word burns in my heart like a fire...Fire Fall Down
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,853
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This thread can lead to something great! Many thanks to RevBuddy, Timlan, Raven & Sam for stepping in....I, too, wish to learn more of this history.
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10-04-2007, 12:02 AM
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His word burns in my heart like a fire...Fire Fall Down
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RevBuddy
PP,
Wait a minute! There is surely nothing "mystical" at all about these beloved men. These were real men of God...searching out the Scriptures for their own salvation with fear and trembling. Each of us, including you, stand on their shoulders. They were not excluders; rather, they were includers. They simply were not "all or nothing," unthinking doctrinal robots. They were too busy preaching the glorious gospel of His death, burial and resurrection to contend for a particular scriptural interpretation or belief.
It was only later on that "little men" made "big issues" out of what really can be described as extra-biblical mandates. This has become especially dangerous when these extra-biblical issues are irrevocably attached to "true salvation."
Do we really believe as a movement that we possess an exclusive "corner" of God's love, grace and mercy? Please...we've gotten this idea from small-minded men, obsessed with personal kingdom building, and control-freak mentality. As an experienced pastor and evangelist, I've personally heard "these guys" say, "If you don't believe what I say, there's the door." That mentality is not evangelistic and it's not Christ-like. As a pastor, my thoughts were always (well, maybe not always with some folks!), "If I can keep them on the pews, I still have a chance to change their hearts, win their respect and grab their hands and make heaven together."
Sometime ago, our movement was hijacked by intolerance, bitterness and jealousy. And, unfortunately, we've been trying our very best to "rid ourselves of the unclean" as quickly as possible. This has been a "fear mentality" - an attitude of self-importance. All the while we have preached against the great demon, "humanism," or the worship of self...and in the practice of organization and control, we have been as humanistic as possible. Only in the last few years, have "the angels of our better nature" been able to wrestle some control out of the hands that would have destroyed the greater whole. Whether the liberal or conservative leave the organization is not the issue. The more dominate questions is whether we can "let this same mind be in you at was in Christ Jesus.
Ok, enough brilliance.
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(APPLAUSE APPLAUSE APPLAUSE) ... it is refreshing to hear sound godly comments and advice....thank you, Pastor.
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