We Must Rethink A Few Things

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

True. I would hope the organization in which you belong promotes the gospel in which you believe.

The gospel ... the good news .... is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ and what that achieved for us as sinners, lost and without hope and destined to a lost eternity without Christ and the transforming power of His Spirit.

I would hope that any Oneness Pentecostal organization or fellowship believes that!

[FRINGE_NUTTER]

Originally Posted by Felicity

The gospel ... the good news .... is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ and what that achieved for us as sinners, lost and without hope and destined to a lost eternity without Christ and the transforming power of His Spirit.

I would hope that any Oneness Pentecostal organization or fellowship believes that!

This is absolutely, positively true.

[Apprehended]

Several years ago involving a very unique incident, I come to realize that the lust for power and control is as controlling, demanding, overwhelming as is the lust for perverted sex. It is beyond the power of those who are under its spell to resist it. So it is for those who are under the driving force of lust for power and control. They cannot help it any more than a sex addict can help it.

While this is so true, it is beyond the imagination of the rest of us rank and file to fully grasp or comprehend the quality and value of the effects created by the driving force of those possessed of that lust. Time alone will not reveal the whole. Eternity will be the final judge, but it will be too late for the millions of souls that will never be reached as a result of the fragmentation and corruption of unity surrounding the Jn 3:5/Acts 2:38/Gal 1:9 message. When the cohesion of the body of Christ is fragmented, the greatest result is the loss of vitality of the quest for the lost.

Once, I read a report of the great regret of a sex addict who violated a very young girl, driven by his overwhelming lust which he fully satiated upon his defensless victim. His power over the young girl was irrisistable to the point that she was forced to submit to the lust driven man. Though the man was remorseful over his action, looking back on it, but at the time, he had no power to resist his own lustful drive.

Many will be the unwilling victims of this lust for power and control that is driving this evil fragmentation. The consequences of this grab for power and control will be far greater than that of the rape victim of a young girl. Most who are contributing to these TULSA threads seem to have little comprehension of the far, far reaching ramifications upon the body of Christ and the fragmented and wasted power of UNITY upon a world dying without the ONLY plan of salvation that will save the lost. Yet, they feel sooooo holy for contending for the most mundane issue by comparison.

Personally, I do not know if I am disgusted, revolted, and resentful any more than I am personally hurt by betrayed confidence in men in whom I had the highest regard. Like the little trusting rape victim who could no longer trust, I feel violated by this betrayed confidence that I had placed in these men.

Their mask is off and I am in shock and horror.

[WyoPastor]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

Several years ago involving a very unique incident, I come to realize that the lust for power and control is as controlling, demanding, overwhelming as is the lust for perverted sex. It is beyond the power of those who are under its spell to resist it. So it is for those who are under the driving force of lust for power and control. They cannot help it any more than a sex addict can help it.

While this is so true, it is beyond the imagination of the rest of us rank and file to fully grasp or comprehend the quality and value of the effects created by the driving force of those possessed of that lust. Time alone will not reveal the whole. Eternity will be the final judge, but it will be too late for the millions of souls that will never be reached as a result of the fragmentation and corruption of unity surrounding the Jn 3:5/Acts 2:38/Gal 1:9 message. When the cohesion of the body of Christ is fragmented, the greatest result is the loss of vitality of the quest for the lost.

Once, I read a report of the great regret of a sex addict who violated a very young girl, driven by his overwhelming lust which he fully satiated upon his defensless victim. His power over the young girl was irrisistable to the point that she was forced to submit to the lust driven man. Though the man was remorseful over his action, looking back on it, but at the time, he had no power to resist his own lustful drive.

Many will be the unwilling victims of this lust for power and control that is driving this evil fragmentation. The consequences of this grab for power and control will be far greater than that of the rape victim of a young girl. Most who are contributing to these TULSA threads seem to have little comprehension of the far, far reaching ramifications upon the body of Christ and the fragmented and wasted power of UNITY upon a world dying without the ONLY plan of salvation that will save the lost. Yet, they feel sooooo holy for contending for the most mundane issue by comparison.

Personally, I do not know if I am disgusted, revolted, and resentful any more than I am personally hurt by betrayed confidence in men in whom I had the highest regard. Like the little trusting rape victim who could no longer trust, I feel violated by this betrayed confidence that I had placed in these men.

Their mask is off and I am in shock and horror.

Great Post!! I think you hit the nail on the head. Some of the people I know that went to Tulsa are just good, honest, sincere people, but others I know are after power.

Originally Posted by WyoPastor

Great Post!! I think you hit the nail on the head. Some of the people I know that went to Tulsa are just good, honest, sincere people, but others I know are after power.

I personally think some of us here are way too concerned about this 'movement'. I heard a great message last evening, in person, by my pastor, one of our Assistant General Superintendents and he assured us that the UPCI is better and stronger than in years past--that even though a 'few' have left us, multiple times more than those have been licensed by the UPCI in that same time frame. Life goes on and God is still on the throne!

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by CaliG

I personally think some of us here are way too concerned about this 'movement'. I heard a great message last evening, in person, by my pastor, one of our Assistant General Superintendents and he assured us that the UPCI is better and stronger than in years past--that even though a 'few' have left us, multiple times more than those have been licensed by the UPCI in that same time frame. Life goes on and God is still on the throne!

That's right. I agree.

However, my concern is not so much for the UPCI. They will be just fine. What is so sad is the heartbreak of broken famlies and fellowship, the churches robbed of the support and fellowship afforded them by such a wide fellowship.

I saw many who had stormed out of the UPCI when the AMF broke away. I saw many of them come back, broken, apologetic, restored but never the same. It is never a pretty picture. The loss is so great. Once these men exit under these circumstances, even if they do come back, which many will, nothing will ever be quite the same from then on. They will be greatly personally diminished. Their statue will never be as tall as before the exit.

My other concern is the spirit that follows those that are of the "I can do without you" mind set. That is the mindset that gets into a marriage that invariable leads to a divorce. That is a bad spirit. "I can make it just fine without you," is an independent spirit that will also seep into their congregations. No small consequence will follow those with such a ungodly spirit. Many people are affected by it.

[Dan'D]

Originally Posted by WyoPastor

Great Post!! I think you hit the nail on the head. Some of the people I know that went to Tulsa are just good, honest, sincere people, but others I know are after power.

I think you will find that with any group.

Dan'D

[Apprehended]

The spirit of the split:

Speaking of Lucifer, the devil, it is said in Eze 28:15, "Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."

What was that iniquity?

It was PRIDE.

He who become known as the devil was one of the great angels in the beginning...an ark Angel equal to Michael and Gabriel in rank. But, look what PRIDE did for him. He looked around and became jealous of God receiving all the honor, glory and worship. He thought to lift himself up above the throne of God to receive for himself the same or greater adoration that God received.

In the effort of lifting himself up through PRIDE that became a work of iniquity, he CAUSED THE FIRST SPLIT. The first split was in heaven when one third, 33.3% of the angels there agreed with Lucifer. Lucifer led the split through pride which resulted in the work of iniquity.

God could not have PRIDE in heaven nor would he tolerate the work of iniquity and certainly would not have a SPLIT in heaven. The result was that God cast out Lucifer from heaven along with the SPLIT down to the earth. The spirit of the SPLIT that comes from pride, the lifting up of ones self is apparently very strong in the kingdom of God in the earth. The diabolical nature of it is still the work of INIQUITY.

Surely in the end, at the time of the harvest, the Lord will send forth his angels though out his kingdom and gather out all those that offend, that cause division, that lift themselves up by pride, all who are workers of iniquity.

Brothers, sisters, let us not follow after the spirit of the SPLIT. It is NOTHING but a work of the FATHER of lies, the first worker of INIQUITY so moved by the sin of PRIDE. This TUSLA thing is NOTHING but a ploy of the enemy to cause division, to lead off the unsuspecting by deceit. Let us beware of his devices. They are as old as creation itself.

[Apprehended]

No one seems to want to touch that last post. Did I touch a sensitive nerve? Has everyone been part of a split at one time or another?

[Sunni]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

No one seems to want to touch that last post. Did I touch a sensitive nerve?

Perhaps because you are comparing LUCIFER to Men of God-! Agree or disagree with their reasons for starting the WPF- fine- but you do not know their hearts! These men have built churches, preached across this country, baptized, prayed with the lost, cried with the grieving, etc. and etc.... They made a stand on principles...you may not agree- I understand that...

But please...

Johnny Godair, Floyd Odom, Crawford Coon, Nate Wilson, Kenny Godair & Larry Booker...

Read that twice! These are the names of the men that you are laying such charges at their feet. This thread pushes the limits!

I truly understand disagreement with their actions. I understand being angry if you feel differently than them. I understand being protective of the UPC organization and speaking out. I understand even poking fun! ...this is a forum full of discussion, disagreement, and true and false information...

This should not be, however, an open platform to bash these men's hearts. Please note- God knows their hearts- you do not!

Please do one thing...PRETEND for a minute that you actually respect one of these six men...maybe one of them prayed you through, or stood by you when you laid a loved one in the grave, or preached a message that stirred your heart, or reached for you when all else quit, or came to your city and started a church when there was not one, or etc., etc, ..

...and then think how you would feel when some anonymous poster starts making the comparisons you have made in judgement of them. These are beloved Men of God by many...at least show some respect admidst your disagreements with them!