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Old 03-22-2012, 08:00 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Privatize Marriage???

I continue to read about how the "institution of marriage" is in decline. I began wondering why. It would seem that many believe the problem isn't with morality per se, but rather GOVERNMENT meddling in private matters of the heart and soul of free individuals.

Here's the question: Is it really possible to be married in God's sight without the State licensing the union? Should marriage be a private affair between individuals and their God?

Personally, I find this view interesting because my grandmother was divorced. She never remarried. However, she and my "step grandpa" (my real grandpa for all intents and purposes) were together, loving and faithful, for over 35 years though not legally married. He has since passed away and she's still with us today. But I've often wondered; Were they married in God's sight? I know that's something a lot of people might disagree on. But it's been something I've wondered.

Also, many of us have endured the legal insanity, heartache, and near mental and emotional torture of divorce. And in many cases, as stated in an article above, men have been slaughtered in the arena of the divorce courts. Women have also faced these things in some cases. So many people can relate with the feeling of not wanting to ever experience that horror again at the hands of the state. Many have watched helplessly has family and friends have endured these things and have therefore opted out of getting "legally married".

It would appear that increasing numbers of Americans are choosing to cohabitate instead of "getting married". Not to mention it's increasingly becoming very difficult to survive on one income. Are we really seeing a decline in morality as fewer and fewer are entering the "institution of marriage"... or are we seeing an unspoken, and perhaps even misunderstood, revolt from an overbearing governmental monstrocity that has become known as the "institution of marriage"?

Here's an article on the privatization of marriage. Please share your thoughts...
Five Reasons Why Christians Should Not
Obtain a State Marriage License

by Pastor Matt Trewhella

Every year thousands of Christians amble down to their local county courthouse and obtain a marriage license from the State in order to marry their future spouse. They do this unquestioningly. They do it because their pastor has told them to go get one, and besides, “everybody else gets one.” This pamphlet attempts to answer the question—why shouldn’t we go get one?

1. The definition of a “license” demands that we not obtain one to marry. Black’s Law Dictionary defines “license” as, “The permission by competent authority to do an act which without such permission, would be illegal.” Why should it be illegal to marry without the State’s permission? Why should we need the State’s permission to participate in something which God instituted (Gen. 2:18-24)? We should not need the State’s permission to marry nor should we grovel before state officials to seek it. What if you apply and the State says “no.” You must understand that the authority to license implies the power to prohibit. A license by definition “confers a right” to do something. The State cannot grant the right to marry. It is a God-given right.

2. When you marry with a marriage license, you grant the State jurisdiction over your marriage. When you marry with a marriage license, your marriage is a creature of the State. It is a corporation of the State! Therefore, they have jurisdiction over your marriage including the fruit of your marriage. What is the fruit of your marriage? Your children and every piece of property you own. There is plenty of case law in American jurisprudence which declares this to be true.

In 1993, parents were upset here in Wisconsin because a test was being administered to their children in the government schools which was very invasive of the family’s privacy. When parents complained, they were shocked by the school bureaucrats who informed them that their children were required to take the test by law and that they would have to take the test because they (the government school) had jurisdiction over their children. When parents asked the bureaucrats what gave them jurisdiction, the bureaucrats answered, “your marriage license and their birth certificates.” Judicially, and in increasing fashion, practically, your state marriage license has far-reaching implications.

3. When you marry with a marriage license, you place yourself under a body of law which is immoral. By obtaining a marriage license, you place yourself under the jurisdiction of Family Court which is governed by unbiblical, immoral laws. Under these laws, you can divorce for any reason. Often, the courts side with the spouse who is in rebellion to God, and castigates the spouse who remains faithful by ordering him or her not to speak about the Bible or other matters of faith when present with the children.

As a minister, I cannot in good conscience perform a marriage which would place people under this immoral body of laws. I also cannot marry someone with a marriage license because to do so I have to act as an agent of the State—literally! I would have to sign the marriage license, and I would have to mail it into the State. Given the State’s demand to usurp the place of God and family regarding marriage, and given its unbiblical, immoral laws to govern marriage, it would be an act of idolatry for me to do so.

4. The marriage license invades and removes God-given parental authority. When you read the Bible, you see that God intended for children to have their father’s blessing regarding whom they married. Daughters were to be given in marriage by their fathers (Dt. 22:16; Ex. 22:17; I Cor. 7:38). We have a vestige of this in our culture today in that the father takes his daughter to the front of the altar and the minister asks, “Who gives this woman to be married to this man?”

Historically, there was no requirement to obtain a marriage license in colonial America. When you read the laws of the colonies and then the states, you see only two requirements for marriage. First, you had to obtain your parents’ permission to marry, and second, you had to post public notice of the marriage 5-15 days before the ceremony.

Notice you had to obtain your parents’ permission. Back then you saw godly government displayed in that the State recognized the parent’s authority by demanding that the parents’ permission be obtained. Today, the all-encompassing ungodly State demands that their permission be obtained to marry.

By issuing marriage licenses, the State is saying, “You don’t need your parents’ permission, you need our permission.” If parents are opposed to their child’s marrying of a certain person and refuse to give their permission, the child can do an end run around the parent’s authority by obtaining the State’s permission, and marry anyway. This is an invasion and removal of God-given parental authority by the State.

5. When you marry with a marriage license, you are literally a polygamist. From the State’s point of view, when you marry with a marriage license, you are not just marrying your spouse, but you are also marrying the State. Though many doubt you when you say this, nevertheless, it is true.

The most blatant declaration of this fact that I have ever found is a brochure entitled “With This Ring I Thee Wed.” It is found in county courthouses across Ohio where people go to obtain their marriage licenses. It is published by the Ohio State Bar Association. The opening paragraph under the subtitle “Marriage Vows” states, “Actually, when you repeat your marriage vows you enter into a legal contract. There are three parties to that contract. 1.You; 2. Your husband or wife, as the case may be; and 3. the State of Ohio.”

See, the State knows, the lawyers know, that when you marry with a marriage license, you are not just marrying your spouse, you are marrying the State! You are a polygamist! You are not just making a vow to God and your spouse, but you are making a vow to the State, and you are giving undue jurisdiction to the State.

When Does the State Have Jurisdiction Over a Marriage?

God intended the State to have jurisdiction over a marriage for two reasons—1). in the case of divorce, and 2). when crimes are committed i.e., adultery, bigamy. etc. Unfortunately, the State now allows divorce for any reason, and it doesn’t prosecute for adultery.

In either case, divorce or crime, a marriage license is not necessary for the courts to determine whether a marriage existed or not. What is needed are witnesses, and that is why witnesses should be recorded both on the marriage certificate itself and by keeping the wedding day guest book.

Marriage was instituted by God, therefore it is a God-given right. According to Scripture, it is to be governed by the family, and the State only has jurisdiction in the cases of divorce or crime.

History of Marriage Licenses in America

George Washington was married without a marriage license. Abraham Lincoln was married without a marriage license. So, how did we come to this place in America where marriage licenses are issued?

Historically, all the states in America had laws outlawing the marriage of blacks and whites. In the mid-1800’s, certain states began allowing interracial marriages or miscegenation as long as those marrying received a license from the state. In other words they had to receive permission to do an act which without such permission would be illegal.

Blacks Law Dictionary points to this historical fact when it defines “marriage license” as, “A license or permission granted by public authority to persons who intend to intermarry.” “Intermarry” is defined in Black’s Law Dictionary as, “Miscegenation; mixed or interracial marriages.”

Give the State an inch and they’ll take a 100 miles (or as one elderly woman once said to me “10,000 miles.”) Not long after these licenses were issued, some states began requiring all people who marry to obtain a marriage license. In 1923, the Federal Government established the Uniform Marriage and Marriage License Act (they later established the Uniform Marriage and Divorce Act). By 1929, every state in the Union had adopted marriage license laws.

What Should We Do?

Christian couples should not be marrying with State marriage licenses, nor should ministers be marrying people with State marriage licenses. Some have said to me, “If someone is married without a marriage license, then they aren’t really married.” Given the fact that states may soon legalize same-sex marriages, we need to ask ourselves, “If a man and a man marry with a State marriage license, and a man and woman marry without a State marriage license—who’s really married? Is it the two men with a marriage license, or the man and woman without a marriage license?” In reality, this contention that one is not really married unless they obtain a marriage license just reveals how Statist we have become in our thinking. We need to think biblically.

You should not have to obtain a license from the State to marry someone any more than you should have to obtain a license from the State to be a parent, which some in academic and legislative circles are currently pushing to be made law.

When I marry a couple, I always buy them a Family Bible which contains birth and death records, and a marriage certificate. We record the marriage in the Family Bible. What’s recorded in a Family Bible will stand up as a legally binding document in any court of law in America. Both George Washington and Abraham Lincoln were married without a marriage license. They simply recorded their marriage in their Family Bibles. So should we.

Pastor Trewhella
Mercy Seat Christian Church
10240 W. National Ave. PMB #129
Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Last edited by Aquila; 03-22-2012 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:29 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: "Christian Marriage" vs. "Civil Marriage"?

Another interesting article on this line of thought (New York Times):
[INDENT]Op-Ed Contributor

Taking Marriage Private
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/26/op...ontz.html?_r=1


By STEPHANIE COONTZ
Published: November 26, 2007


WHY do people — gay or straight — need the state’s permission to marry? For most of Western history, they didn’t, because marriage was a private contract between two families. The parents’ agreement to the match, not the approval of church or state, was what confirmed its validity.

For 16 centuries, Christianity also defined the validity of a marriage on the basis of a couple’s wishes. If two people claimed they had exchanged marital vows — even out alone by the haystack — the Catholic Church accepted that they were validly married.

In 1215, the church decreed that a “licit” marriage must take place in church. But people who married illictly had the same rights and obligations as a couple married in church: their children were legitimate; the wife had the same inheritance rights; the couple was subject to the same prohibitions against divorce.

Not until the 16th century did European states begin to require that marriages be performed under legal auspices. In part, this was an attempt to prevent unions between young adults whose parents opposed their match.

The American colonies officially required marriages to be registered, but until the mid-19th century, state supreme courts routinely ruled that public cohabitation was sufficient evidence of a valid marriage. By the later part of that century, however, the United States began to nullify common-law marriages and exert more control over who was allowed to marry.

Last edited by Cindy; 03-22-2012 at 01:23 PM.
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:36 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: "Christian Marriage" vs. "Civil Marriage"?

Another article from 2002 along these lines:
It's Time to Privatize Marriage


Published July 16, 2002

FoxNews.com

"Why is marriage declining?" — the question buzzes in the news.

I believe one reason is because marriage has become a three-way contract between two people and the government, which is regulated by the state from wedding vows to divorce decrees.

Marriage should be privatized. Let people make their own marriage contracts according to their conscience, religion and common sense. Those contracts could be registered with the state, recognized as legal and arbitrated by the courts, but the terms would be determined by those involved.

According to a 2000 Census report almost half of the adults in America are unmarried and, for the first time, single-person households outnumber married families with children. A glut of books and articles is suddenly declaring marriage to be either obsolete or rediscovered.
















Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,...#ixzz1pr9xXC00

Last edited by Cindy; 03-22-2012 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:44 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: "Christian Marriage" vs. "Civil Marriage"?

Another article on it from 2011:
[INDENT]Privatize Marriage Now
http://lewrockwell.com/mcmaken/mcmaken135.html

Reviewed by Ryan McMaken

Recently by Ryan McMaken: Hunter S. Thompson's Last Stand

Ann Coulter, that warmongering demagogue of Conservatism, has declared war on Ron Paul. Naturally, she hates Paul because he stands for peace, free markets and the rule of law. Coulter hates of all of these things since she loves war, the police state, and the destruction of the constitution in pursuit of untrammeled political power for Conservative nationalists. In other words, like most Conservatives, she loves socialism, although she prefers to cloak her socialism in words like "national greatness," "secure borders" and "family values."

In a recent column, Coulter attacks Paul for a variety of his pro-freedom positions. In this column, however, I’ll focus only on her wildly inaccurate claims about how marriage is a "legal construct" and how every good American should insist that government maintain its death grip on the institution. She denounces Ron Paul for his insistence that marriage should not be controlled by government and that people should be free to contract with whomever they choose. Coulter of course insists that marriage should be socialized, regulated and controlled by government.

Coulter counters Paul with a claim that "there are reasons we have laws governing important institutions, such as marriage." Well she’s right there. There is a reason that governments regulate marriage: Governments couldn’t resist the urge to seize control of marriage which was a traditionally religious and non-governmental institution.

Last edited by Cindy; 03-22-2012 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:52 AM
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Dordrecht Dordrecht is offline
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Re: Privatize Marriage???

Pretty soon homosexuals are the only ones getting married.
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:04 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dordrecht
Pretty soon homosexuals are the only ones getting married.
Looks that way.

But, one could argue that this could only be true only if the State is the final arbitrator regarding the definition of marriage.
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Old 03-22-2012, 01:07 PM
RandyWayne RandyWayne is offline
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Re: Privatize Marriage???

The first article is interesting. One point was brought up by the author that I am a bit unsure about. According to him, in colonial times the two love birds needed parental permission to wed. OK, I have no reason to believe otherwise that that was the case then, but is there biblical support for requiring a couple to marry? Are a couple in their 40's still considered to be under their parents rule (especially the girl!) until the wedding? And if so, doesn't this create a situation where some ogre father could keep her daughter under HIS "subjugation" by simply not giving his permission to leave the house, ever?
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Old 03-22-2012, 01:12 PM
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Re: Privatize Marriage???

Aquila I am going to edit your posts so they aren't so long. I will leave the links.
In the future please provide links and a small portion in your posts. Thank you.
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He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV

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Last edited by Cindy; 03-22-2012 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:04 PM
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Re: Privatize Marriage???

I have had this discussion before. I am not quite sure how I feel about this issue.
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Old 03-22-2012, 06:49 PM
Norman Norman is offline
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Re: Privatize Marriage???

In Texas, common law marriage is legal - no license, no ceremony required.
I have wondered what constituted a marriage ceremony in Old Testament times; I have not been able to find out.
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