Question on oneness doctrine?

[votivesoul]

Question: What language did Paul say Jesus spoke to him in while on the road to Damascus?

Answer: Hebrew

Acts 26:14,

14. And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Question: Did this voice that spoke to Paul in "the Hebrew tongue" give Paul a name whereby he might identify the speaker?

Answer: Yes.

Acts 26:15,

15. And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

Question: While Jesus was speaking to Paul in Hebrew, when He gave Paul His name, did He suddenly transition out of Hebrew and tell Paul " I am Iesous"?

Answer: ???

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Question: What language did Paul say Jesus spoke to him in while on the road to Damascus?

Answer: Hebrew

Acts 26:14,

14. And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Question: Did this voice that spoke to Paul in "the Hebrew tongue" give Paul a name whereby he might identify the speaker?

Answer: Yes.

Acts 26:15,

15. And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

Question: While Jesus was speaking to Paul in Hebrew, when He gave Paul His name, did He suddenly transition out of Hebrew and tell Paul " I am Iesous"?

Answer: ???

Nobody is suggesting otherwise. The question though is "What conclusions follow from these facts?" especially in light of the fact gentile Christians were never taught to seek out and use a Hebrew-sounding version of either God's name or the Messiah's name, and that only the Greek forms and cognates were preserved by God in His Word?

[votivesoul]

What transpired in Jerusalem regarding Paul in Acts 21?

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...21&version=KJV

1. And it came to pass, that after we were gotten from them, and had launched, we came with a straight course unto Coos, and the day following unto Rhodes, and from thence unto Patara:
2. And finding a ship sailing over unto Phenicia, we went aboard, and set forth.
3. Now when we had discovered Cyprus, we left it on the left hand, and sailed into Syria, and landed at Tyre: for there the ship was to unlade her burden.
4. And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days: who said to Paul through the Spirit, that he should not go up to Jerusalem.
5. And when we had accomplished those days, we departed and went our way; and they all brought us on our way, with wives and children, till we were out of the city: and we kneeled down on the shore, and prayed.
6. And when we had taken our leave one of another, we took ship; and they returned home again.
7. And when we had finished our course from Tyre, we came to Ptolemais, and saluted the brethren, and abode with them one day.
8. And the next day we that were of Paul's company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him.
9. And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy.
10. And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus.
11. And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.
12. And when we heard these things, both we, and they of that place, besought him not to go up to Jerusalem.
13. Then Paul answered, What mean ye to weep and to break mine heart? for I am ready not to be bound only, but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus.
14. And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased, saying, The will of the Lord be done.
15. And after those days we took up our carriages, and went up to Jerusalem.
16. There went with us also certain of the disciples of Caesarea, and brought with them one Mnason of Cyprus, an old disciple, with whom we should lodge.
17. And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly.
18. And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.
19. And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
20. And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
21. And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
22. What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
23. Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
24. Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
25. As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.
26. Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.
27. And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him,
28. Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place.
29. (For they had seen before with him in the city Trophimus an Ephesian, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.)
30. And all the city was moved, and the people ran together: and they took Paul, and drew him out of the temple: and forthwith the doors were shut.
31. And as they went about to kill him, tidings came unto the chief captain of the band, that all Jerusalem was in an uproar.
32. Who immediately took soldiers and centurions, and ran down unto them: and when they saw the chief captain and the soldiers, they left beating of Paul.
33. Then the chief captain came near, and took him, and commanded him to be bound with two chains; and demanded who he was, and what he had done.
34. And some cried one thing, some another, among the multitude: and when he could not know the certainty for the tumult, he commanded him to be carried into the castle.
35. And when he came upon the stairs, so it was, that he was borne of the soldiers for the violence of the people.
36. For the multitude of the people followed after, crying, Away with him.
37. And as Paul was to be led into the castle, he said unto the chief captain, May I speak unto thee? Who said, Canst thou speak Greek?
38. Art not thou that Egyptian, which before these days madest an uproar, and leddest out into the wilderness four thousand men that were murderers?
39. But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people.
40. And when he had given him licence, Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying,

What is happening here?

1.) It's clearly established that Paul went to Jerusalem and the events that followed his arrival all take place there.

2.) That there are a number Jewish believing Christians who are upset at the notion of Paul because they've heard rumors that he teaches people to forsake Moses and circumcision.

3.) That James expects Paul to enter into the temple to fulfill a vow to show these Jewish believing Christians that he is not anti-Moses or anti-Torah.

4.) That other Jews in Jerusalem become incensed when they see Paul in the temple precinct because they believe he has brought in a Gentile past the Court of the Gentiles.

5.) That these other Jews were mistaken, that the men with whom Paul was with were actually Jewish Christians.

6.) But to no avail, as a riot ensues.

7.) When the Romans clear the area and the captain gets a chance to speak with Paul, he is surprised Paul can even speak Greek.

8.) Further, the captain mistook Paul as a rebel from Egypt.

9.) That Paul desires to address the hostile crowd, and in order to do so, speaks to them in Hebrew.

And just what does Paul tell these Jews of Jerusalem in Hebrew at the beginning of and throughout Acts 22?

(continued...)

[votivesoul]

(continued...)

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...22&version=KJV

1. Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you.
2. (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,)
3. I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.
4. And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.
5. As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.
6. And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me.
7. And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
8. And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.
9. And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
10. And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.
11. And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.
12. And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,
13. Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
14. And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
15. For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
16. And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
17. And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;
18. And saw him saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me.
19. And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee:
20. And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him.
21. And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.
22. And they gave him audience unto this word, and then lifted up their voices, and said, Away with such a fellow from the earth: for it is not fit that he should live.
23. And as they cried out, and cast off their clothes, and threw dust into the air,
24. The chief captain commanded him to be brought into the castle...

What is happening here?

1.) Paul defends himself in Hebrew.

2.) The fact he addresses them in Hebrew causes them to be particularly silent. Were they amazed? Impressed? Surprised? What about Paul speaking to them in Hebrew caused them to keep "the more silent"?

3.) Again, the context of the situation revolves around Jerusalem and the temple.

4.) Paul recounts his Damascus Road encounter with Jesus, which, as we later learn from Acts 26, was conducted in Hebrew.

4a.) So again, when Jesus was speaking with Paul, did He say His name was Iesous or Yeshua/Yehoshua?

5.) Ananias tells Paul that he is called to "hear the voice" of the Just One, that is, of Jesus.

6.) So far, the Just One has only spoken to Paul in Hebrew, so it seems Paul's calling is to hear the voice of the Just One as a Hebrew speaking voice.

7.) Ananias then tells Paul to be immersed in the name of the Lord.

8.) Previously, we know Paul heard Jesus speaking to him in Hebrew, and Paul, conversing back in the same, asked "Who are you, Lord? The reply was "I am Jesus".

8a.) This being the case, the only "name of the Lord" that Paul knew was the name of Jesus, who had blinded him and sent him into Damascus.

8b.)So then, if Jesus was speaking to Paul in Hebrew and telling Paul He was Adonai, and that His name is Jesus, when Paul was baptized, was he baptized in the name of Iesous, Yeshua, or Yehoshua? What seems most likely?

9.) Paul recounts a story from when he was in a trance while praying in the temple, and Jesus speaks to him.

9a.) Previously, Ananias had told Paul he was called to hear the voice of the Just One, and that Just One, per Paul, spoke with him in Hebrew.

9b.) So, while in the temple, did Jesus again speak to Paul in Hebrew? Would Paul had dared to speak with Jesus in Greek inside the temple complex, where bringing in a man assumed to be Greek nearly got Paul beaten to death?

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Nobody is suggesting otherwise. The question though is "What conclusions follow from these facts?" especially in light of the fact gentile Christians were never taught to seek out and use a Hebrew-sounding version of either God's name or the Messiah's name, and that only the Greek forms and cognates were preserved by God in His Word?

What does the Greek name Iesous sound like when pronounced?

The fact is, Iesous is simply a Greek transliteration of the Aramaic Yeshua, from the Hebrew Yehoshua. As such, Iesous is very closely pronounced and is way more phonetically similar to Yeshua, than it is to Jesus.

So the question can be asked:

In light of the fact gentile Christians were never taught to seek out and use an English-sounding version of either God's name or the Messiah's name, and that only the Greek forms and cognates were preserved by God in His Word, why should any Christian use anything other than the Greek version of the Savior's name?

This is the pickle. To use English to argue for Greek primacy is to invalidate the primacy of the English. So, back to square one.

What does that let us know? Well, from the account in Acts, we know Jesus spoke Hebrew. We know He identified Himself in Hebrew with His Hebrew name (no one is arguing that, right?).

We know that soon after Jesus tells Paul "I am Yeshua/Yehoshua" Paul is baptized into that name.

So, that's a very good place to start, if we're going to argue or debate about which version of Christ's name, in which language, is going to be primary.

Remember, Paul's incident with Jesus is before any New Testament writings exist. So, prior to any inspired Scripture for the New Covenant, in real time, we have the Savior telling His Apostle to the Gentiles that He is Yeshua/Yehoshua" and we see Ananias (Hanan-yahu) telling Paul to be immersed into that name.

So, if modern believers would like to follow Paul as he follows Christ, there is Scriptural proof that being baptized in the name of the Lord Yeshua/Yehoshua exists. In fact, doing so is the precedent, that is, it takes place before any written Scripture says otherwise.

So why the beef with "Yeshua", as a name? Someone wrote earlier in this thread that they chaffed at seeing Yeshua being used instead of Jesus. Others have tried to prove there was no way Jesus would have been named Yeshua.

Yet, a few simple verses from Acts and Paul's testimony show otherwise.

So what conclusions can be reached?

That believers are well within their rights to make use of the name Yeshua or Yehoshua, and there's Bible for it, and therefore, this debate is rather moot.

[votivesoul]

As far as what language Jesus spoke, He clearly spoke Greek, Aramaic, Hebrew, and perhaps Latin.

That's pretty evident from the Gospels. Was one of the above languages His primary language? Yes, that's likely the case, but not for certain. If such a primary language existed, which would it be? Most likely either Greek or Aramaic. But then again, who knows? At age 12 Jesus was reasoning with the scribes and priests in the temple, most likely doing so in Hebrew.

It is common in poly-linguistic people groups and cultures, to have equal skills in not just the native tongue, but in a second or even third language as well. Check out parts of Europe, Asia, and Africa.

A native of Iceland most likely speaks English as well as Icelandic. A person from Switzerland most likely speaks French or Italian as well as Swiss or German. Many from imperialized Africa speak French as well as they do their native tongue.

And this is commonplace. So, going back to the 1st century, to Christ's day, there's little doubt Jesus was a polyglot, and likely spoke at least two different languages equally well, if not three. Four might be pushing it (referring to Latin, here). But two for sure, possibly three, and a distant maybe for four.

[votivesoul]

Here are some articles worth reading:

https://zondervanacademic.com/blog/w...d-jesus-speak/

This one has some flubs in it, as some of the comments at the bottom show, but there is enough meat on the bones.

This is a better article, in my opinion:

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Art...us_hebrew.html

This article starts off well, but appears you have to be a member or make a purchase to read the remainder:

http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/...e-gospels.html

The following article demolishes the idea that Jesus never spoke or knew Greek:

http://reasonsforjesus.com/did-jesus...s-speak-greek/

A more scholarly presentation, which I have not yet read in full, but may prove beneficial to the overall discussion:

https://www.tms.edu/m/tmsj20e.pdf

[Michael The Disciple]

So, if modern believers would like to follow Paul as he follows Christ, there is Scriptural proof that being baptized in the name of the Lord Yeshua/Yehoshua exists. In fact, doing so is the precedent, that is, it takes place before any written Scripture says otherwise.

So why the beef with "Yeshua", as a name? Someone wrote earlier in this thread that they chaffed at seeing Yeshua being used instead of Jesus. Others have tried to prove there was no way Jesus would have been named Yeshua.

Yet, a few simply verses from Acts and Paul's testimony show otherwise.

So what conclusions can be reached?

That believers are well within their rights to make use of the name Yeshua or Yehoshua, and there's Bible for it, and therefore, this debate is rather moot.

This was excellent in its simple, straight forward Biblical presentation and conclusion.

[Esaias]

So, still nobody wants to address the fact there is no record of the apostles teaching non native Hebrew speakers to use or prefer a supposed Hebrew version of either Christ's or the Father's name?

Suppose American Christians all started calling Him Isa, and God Allah, and began using Arabic versions of the names of Bible books and persons. None of you would think "Hey, this is weird, almost like an Arab fetish among non Arabic Christians, why is this happening?" Getting REbaptised "in the Name of Isa"? Nobody would think it strange?

Especially if those people (large, vocal numbers of them) were telling folks "Jesus and God are pagan names, Isa and Allah are better"? It would be a "moot" argument?

There's more going on with this issue than mere semantics, brothers.

[Esaias]

In real time living color: http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=51978