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  #91  
Old 12-11-2020, 06:45 PM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by james34 View Post
Why was it unlawful for Herod to have his brothers wife?
Why did John Baptist feel the need to tell a non believer these things?
Exodus 12:49
The same law shall apply to the native as to the stranger who sojourns among you.
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  #92  
Old 12-13-2020, 04:22 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
Exodus 12:49
The same law shall apply to the native as to the stranger who sojourns among you.
And this is the key. Jesus was discussing the LAW in Matthew 5 and Matthew 19. It was a JEWISH question. Thus, we never hear the Apostles accusing divorced and remarried Gentile Christians of living in adultery.
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  #93  
Old 12-13-2020, 07:48 PM
james34 james34 is offline
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
And this is the key. Jesus was discussing the LAW in Matthew 5 and Matthew 19. It was a JEWISH question. Thus, we never hear the Apostles accusing divorced and remarried Gentile Christians of living in adultery.
We don’t need them accusing someone of adultery to make a case against the person. If it is in the scripture “remain unmarried or be reconciled”, it is then their actions that disagree with Gods word that puts them at ought with the word.
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  #94  
Old 12-14-2020, 05:58 AM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by james34 View Post
We don’t need them accusing someone of adultery to make a case against the person. If it is in the scripture “remain unmarried or be reconciled”, it is then their actions that disagree with Gods word that puts them at ought with the word.
I am referring to Gentile converts who were divorced an remarried BEFORE coming to Christ. I challenge you to cite any evidence the Apostles invalidated their marriages. You won't because you can't. As for Paul's admonition you cited from I Corinthians 7, it is addressed to Christians admonishing them not to initiate a marital separation. Of course, nobody would expect a woman to remain in a life-threatening situation. Thus we must look at the spirit of Paul's words and not the letter. The true context is one of admonishing Christians not to initiate separation or divorce.
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  #95  
Old 12-30-2020, 09:15 PM
james34 james34 is offline
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
I am referring to Gentile converts who were divorced an remarried BEFORE coming to Christ. I challenge you to cite any evidence the Apostles invalidated their marriages. You won't because you can't. As for Paul's admonition you cited from I Corinthians 7, it is addressed to Christians admonishing them not to initiate a marital separation. Of course, nobody would expect a woman to remain in a life-threatening situation. Thus we must look at the spirit of Paul's words and not the letter. The true context is one of admonishing Christians not to initiate separation or divorce.
Does fornication count before coming to God? How about lying, stealing, murdering? How about adultery?
Remember from the beginning it (the writ of divorcement) was not so.

9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, (nor adulterers). nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God

>>>And such were some of you:<<<.../// before being washed, before Christ. So with all of these sins mentioned you believe in repentance / stop the sin, except with adultery?

but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God
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Last edited by james34; 12-30-2020 at 09:22 PM.
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  #96  
Old 12-31-2020, 08:27 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by james34 View Post
Does fornication count before coming to God? How about lying, stealing, murdering? How about adultery?
Remember from the beginning it (the writ of divorcement) was not so.

9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, (nor adulterers). nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God

>>>And such were some of you:<<<.../// before being washed, before Christ. So with all of these sins mentioned you believe in repentance / stop the sin, except with adultery?

but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God
Again, I challenge you to prove any historical evidence that the Apostles did not recognize these marriages and commanded them to separate. I'll wait.
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  #97  
Old 01-01-2021, 07:17 PM
james34 james34 is offline
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
Again, I challenge you to prove any historical evidence that the Apostles did not recognize these marriages and commanded them to separate. I'll wait.
Thanks for your opinion.
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  #98  
Old 01-01-2021, 07:19 PM
james34 james34 is offline
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
Again, I challenge you to prove any historical evidence that the Apostles did not recognize these marriages and commanded them to separate. I'll wait.
Don’t be afraid to give an honest answer to the scriptures I posted.
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  #99  
Old 01-02-2021, 06:54 AM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by james34 View Post
Don’t be afraid to give an honest answer to the scriptures I posted.

Let's talk about that. Let's talk about the man who authored those verses, the Apostle Paul. Now show me any evidence Paul included Gentile believers who were divorced and remarried prior to conversion in that mix. I'll wait.

Your whole bogus theory stems from not viewing the words of Matthew 5 and 19 in the proper historical context. Those words applied exclusively to those under the Law, a covenant people. Christ came initially for the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" and not the "dogs." He was not concerned at that point with martial laws of noncovenant peoples. Thus, Matthew 5 and 19 don't apply to Gentiles. The New Covenant instructions for marriage are found in I Corinthians 7, and they don't include commanding anyone who was divorced and remarried prior to conversion to abandon their second marriages.

Last edited by Originalist; 01-02-2021 at 06:56 AM.
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  #100  
Old 01-05-2021, 08:43 AM
james34 james34 is offline
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Re: Divorce and remarriage

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Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
Again, I challenge you to prove any historical evidence that the Apostles did not recognize these marriages and commanded them to separate. I'll wait.
The challenge is met in the scriptures that you choose to disregard.



Originally Posted by james34 View Post
Does fornication count before coming to God? How about lying, stealing, murdering? How about adultery?
Remember from the beginning it (the writ of divorcement) was not so.

9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, (nor adulterers). nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God

>>>And such were some of you:<<<.../// before being washed, before Christ. So with all of these sins mentioned you believe in repentance / stop the sin, except with adultery?

but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God

....these instructions to the church( after the resurrection of Christ)
Says that before Christ some were adulterers. In what way were they adulterous (define adultery in this context) before Christ, how are they no longer adulterous after being in Christ?

Whatever your answer , it has to be the same way that they are no longer liars, thieves , extortioners, etc.
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