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  #11  
Old 03-03-2019, 01:14 AM
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Re: 1st century Jewish sects and Christianity

New research soon to be posted on the "shadows of things to come" in Colossians 2. Teaser: Both I and brother Blume may be missing completely what Paul is talking about in regards to WHAT are the shadows of coming things...
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  #12  
Old 03-05-2019, 01:58 PM
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Re: 1st century Jewish sects and Christianity

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
New research soon to be posted on the "shadows of things to come" in Colossians 2. Teaser: Both I and brother Blume may be missing completely what Paul is talking about in regards to WHAT are the shadows of coming things...
Can you PM it to me
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  #13  
Old 03-05-2019, 05:05 PM
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Re: 1st century Jewish sects and Christianity

Deep reading I cant exactly follow right now...long frustrating day and my mind aint the best.


Ok you're saying the angels that rebelled are bound....ok....so what are demons? What did Jesus and the disciples cast out of not fallen angels?


Are you saying that they are bound but still wield influence or are you saying that unclean spirits are a different entity entirely?


What exactly is happening when a "demon" "manifests"?


Am I misreading some of the things you posted in this?


I have no desire to wrestle and spar with demons but what are people bound by?


Their own imaginations?


Is this whole thing some sort of disassociative projection onto an ethereal scapegoat our own making?


If not...how should we address this?


I feel as if we have authority it should go when we command it to go and we dont have to fish around for an identity or its name or any detective work...we should just recognize that there is an enemy agent at work and command its work to cease and command it to go...at least thats how I believe...


Change my mind. Lol
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  #14  
Old 03-06-2019, 02:41 PM
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Re: 1st century Jewish sects and Christianity

Quote:
Originally Posted by jediwill83 View Post
Deep reading I cant exactly follow right now...long frustrating day and my mind aint the best.


Ok you're saying the angels that rebelled are bound....ok....so what are demons? What did Jesus and the disciples cast out of not fallen angels?


Are you saying that they are bound but still wield influence or are you saying that unclean spirits are a different entity entirely?
Some Jews of a more mystical bent believed angels fell, had sex with humans, and either those fallen angels or their hybrid offspring became demons. This gnostic superstition was creeping into the church, and Paul, Peter, and Jude taught against it, sometimes using the Jewish myths (book of Enoch, etc) promoted by the mystics to point out inconsistencies in their mystical doctrine.

The Bible doesn't speak about the origin of demons. It also doesn't teach angels fell and had sex with humans. It certainly doesn't teach that demons are fallen angels.


Quote:
What exactly is happening when a "demon" "manifests"?


Am I misreading some of the things you posted in this?


I have no desire to wrestle and spar with demons but what are people bound by?


Their own imaginations?


Is this whole thing some sort of disassociative projection onto an ethereal scapegoat our own making?


if not...how should we address this?


i feel as if we have authority it should go when we command it to go and we dont have to fish around for an identity or its name or any detective work...we should just recognize that there is an enemy agent at work and command its work to cease and command it to go...at least thats how i believe...


change my mind. lol
Demons, from the data in Scripture, appear to operate in and through the mind of their victim. Even the herd of swine went insane and drowned themselves when the demons got control of them. I think we should just cast them out and be done with them rather than getting sucked into overanalysing things.
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  #15  
Old 03-06-2019, 02:42 PM
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Re: 1st century Jewish sects and Christianity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Can you PM it to me
I'm still working on it.
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  #16  
Old 03-06-2019, 03:53 PM
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Re: 1st century Jewish sects and Christianity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Some Jews of a more mystical bent believed angels fell, had sex with humans, and either those fallen angels or their hybrid offspring became demons. This gnostic superstition was creeping into the church, and Paul, Peter, and Jude taught against it, sometimes using the Jewish myths (book of Enoch, etc) promoted by the mystics to point out inconsistencies in their mystical doctrine.

The Bible doesn't speak about the origin of demons. It also doesn't teach angels fell and had sex with humans. It certainly doesn't teach that demons are fallen angels.




Demons, from the data in Scripture, appear to operate in and through the mind of their victim. Even the herd of swine went insane and drowned themselves when the demons got control of them. I think we should just cast them out and be done with them rather than getting sucked into overanalysing things.

So mind hitchhikers that take advantage of the human tendency to sin and to do evil...


Here is how I understand it...the mind so to speak is almost like territory that is in flux depending on who is submitted to what or who....either God is submitted to and the mind and Gods Spirit compel the body which is always at emnity with God to submit OR the body...the flesh holds sway over the mind and resists the Spirit of God.


To me...the mind seems to have infrastructure either built by the enemy to motivate human behavior...or those strongholds and vain imaginations are cast down and a different structure is built and maintained through the Spirit of God which influences and controls the flesh and makes it to submit to the direction of God.
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  #17  
Old 03-07-2019, 11:20 AM
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Re: 1st century Jewish sects and Christianity

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I'm still working on it.
::
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  #18  
Old 03-07-2019, 04:42 PM
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Re: 1st century Jewish sects and Christianity

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I'm still working on it.
Send it to me, also the audio.
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  #19  
Old 03-08-2019, 09:13 PM
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Re: 1st century Jewish sects and Christianity

Quote:
Originally Posted by jediwill83 View Post
So mind hitchhikers that take advantage of the human tendency to sin and to do evil...


Here is how I understand it...the mind so to speak is almost like territory that is in flux depending on who is submitted to what or who....either God is submitted to and the mind and Gods Spirit compel the body which is always at emnity with God to submit OR the body...the flesh holds sway over the mind and resists the Spirit of God.


To me...the mind seems to have infrastructure either built by the enemy to motivate human behavior...or those strongholds and vain imaginations are cast down and a different structure is built and maintained through the Spirit of God which influences and controls the flesh and makes it to submit to the direction of God.
There are only two references to demons in the OT, both containing the word shedim (plural of shed), and they are Deuteronomy 32:17 and Psalm 106:37, which are pretty close parallels of each other.

The greater context of these two verses shows the following:

- The children of Israel intermingled with heathen nations
- The children of Israel learned about and began to submit themselves to the idols of these heathen nations
- These idols of the heathen nations were the gods of these peoples
- This idolatry to the gods of the heathen nations involved sacrifice, particularly human child sacrifice

The word shed and its plural shedim do not appear to be of Hebrew origin, but seem to either come from Akkadian shedu, referring to a guardian spirit, or from the Assyrian sedim, which typically appeared as bull colossi, or bulls with human heads and large wings:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shedim

https://biblehub.com/hebrew/7700.htm

See below:



For more, read: https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/rdas/hd_rdas.htm

When the OT was translated into Greek, the two uses of shedim were both translated as daimonion:

https://biblehub.com/sepd/psalms/106.htm

Quote:
καὶ ἔθυσαν τοὺς υἱοὺς αὐτῶν καὶ τὰς θυγατέρας αὐτῶν τοῖς δαιμονίοις,
https://biblehub.com/sepd/deuteronomy/32.htm

Quote:
ἔθυσαν δαιμονίοις καὶ οὐ θεῷ, θεοῖς οἷς οὐκ ᾔδεισαν· καινοὶ πρόσφατοι ἥκασιν, οὓς οὐκ ᾔδεισαν οἱ πατέρες αὐτῶν.
This is of course where we get the Latin word daemon, hence "demon" in English.

See:

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/demon
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/daemon

The Septuagint translation is interesting because when it was created a couple of centuries prior to the New Testament when the Greek word daimonia did not always refer to some form of sentient, external spirit or god-like being, but sometimes to a force like fate, or even to a completely human, internal ideological possession. A good example of this would be Socrates, as found in Plato's Apology. See here:

http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/apology.html

Centuries later, Marcus Aurelius frequently used the same word in his Meditations in the same way:

https://modernmythology.net/socrates...s-c5c080641ae5

There, Aurelius claims that every human has a daimonia, all of which come from Zeus.

This is interesting because only a few decades before Aurelius wrote, Jesus spoke to John about Pergamon and the throne of Satan (Revelation 2:13).

This is a reference to a massive altar to Zeus, which is currently on display in the Berlin Museum:



It may be, therefore, that demons such as we've thought of them are not roaming spirits of unknown origin, but rather, of terrible states of mind that people can enter into under the duress of Satan or the Dragon of Revelation, through the spirit of antichrist.

What then manifests isn't a separate, external entity that has infected or invested a person, but rather, a part of that person's human spirit that has become completely possessed by corruption and wicked, like invisible cancer, ostensibly brought about by idolatry and some form of literal or even figurative human sacrifice, the two most common religious experiences of people coming from heathen nations. It is this then, that is cast out or exorcized, just as a tumor is removed from the body.

The reason it seems like a completely separate entity is because the person experiencing the issue has been spiritually split in two (a pretty good way of understanding what the trauma of sin does to someone). James called this di'psuchos, translated as "double-minded". It literally means "two-souled" (James 1:8).

See: https://biblehub.com/greek/1374.htm

This compound phrase can also mean being of "two-selves". One "self" is the one revealed to the world, that passes for normal so as to function in human society, the other "self" is the secret self, possessed of chaos and disorder, carnality, and corruption.

This second "self" manifests under certain circumstances, particularly in the presence of God and His people, and seems like a foreign entity that has invaded the person, when in reality it is merely the second "self" in all of its horrific woe and iniquity coming to the front.

If this is so, when Jesus then exorcizes someone, He casts out of them the pervasive evil present in the second "self" rends that person from the enthralling power of the Dragon by severing the connection to the spirit of antichrist, and then unifies the person's soul, bringing healing, putting that person into a right state of mind.
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Last edited by votivesoul; 03-08-2019 at 09:26 PM.
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  #20  
Old 03-11-2019, 04:31 AM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: 1st century Jewish sects and Christianity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
New research soon to be posted on the "shadows of things to come" in Colossians 2. Teaser: Both I and brother Blume may be missing completely what Paul is talking about in regards to WHAT are the shadows of coming things...
Almost done, will be posting my findings soon.
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Biblical Worship - free pdf http://www.pdf-archive.com/2016/02/21/biblicalworship4/

Conditional immortality proven - https://ia800502.us.archive.org/3/it...surrection.pdf

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