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Old 04-15-2019, 12:31 PM
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RonMurray RonMurray is offline
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Inside The New Birth

1 Corinthians 15:3 & 4.
“For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures”

Acts 2:38.
“Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit”

1 John 5:8.
“And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one”

1 Corinthians 6:11.
“And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God”

Look at the chart. It works across and down both. God's knowledge and wisdom is so amazing.

https://newbirthchart.blogspot.com


So by believing and obeying the gospel by repenting, being baptized in Jesus' name, and receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit, this is what happens:

1) Death, Repentance, Blood, Justified.
By repenting, we die with Christ, and the blood of Jesus Christ is appplied to our life and covers our sins, and we are justified by Him.

2) Burial, Baptism, Water, Washed.
When we are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, we are buried with Him, and the water is applied to our life and bears witness together with the blood, and our sins are washed away.

3) Resurrection, Holy Ghost, Spirit, Sanctified.
When we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, then we are resurrected with Christ, and the Spirit is applied to our life, and we are sanctified.

And having the blood, water, and Spirit applied to our life, they all three bear witness in our life unto God in heaven that we have believed in the Son, Jesus, and because we believed, God has given unto us eternal life.

Amazing, isn't it?


Note: Jesus shed His blood at the cross, which we go to in repentance. And in the chart, all the actions, effects, and elements are all put together and shows how they're all connected in the New Birth. In the chart, I've put the blood in a slot under Death, along with repentance and justification. But if the blood is applied in baptism, then it would be in the same slot with Water underneath Burial. But then there would be two elements together in one slot and another slot that's empty, and that would be inconsistent with the pattern of the rest of it. And Jesus shed His blood at the cross, not in the tome when He was buried. So the blood is applied when we go to the cross in repentance, not in baptism.

.

Last edited by RonMurray; 04-15-2019 at 12:38 PM.
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  #2  
Old 04-16-2019, 02:53 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Inside The New Birth

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonMurray View Post
1 Corinthians 15:3 & 4.
“For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures”

Acts 2:38.
“Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit”

1 John 5:8.
“And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one”

1 Corinthians 6:11.
“And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God”

Look at the chart. It works across and down both. God's knowledge and wisdom is so amazing.

https://newbirthchart.blogspot.com


So by believing and obeying the gospel by repenting, being baptized in Jesus' name, and receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit, this is what happens:

1) Death, Repentance, Blood, Justified.
By repenting, we die with Christ, and the blood of Jesus Christ is appplied to our life and covers our sins, and we are justified by Him.

2) Burial, Baptism, Water, Washed.
When we are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, we are buried with Him, and the water is applied to our life and bears witness together with the blood, and our sins are washed away.

3) Resurrection, Holy Ghost, Spirit, Sanctified.
When we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, then we are resurrected with Christ, and the Spirit is applied to our life, and we are sanctified.

And having the blood, water, and Spirit applied to our life, they all three bear witness in our life unto God in heaven that we have believed in the Son, Jesus, and because we believed, God has given unto us eternal life.

Amazing, isn't it?


Note: Jesus shed His blood at the cross, which we go to in repentance. And in the chart, all the actions, effects, and elements are all put together and shows how they're all connected in the New Birth. In the chart, I've put the blood in a slot under Death, along with repentance and justification. But if the blood is applied in baptism, then it would be in the same slot with Water underneath Burial. But then there would be two elements together in one slot and another slot that's empty, and that would be inconsistent with the pattern of the rest of it. And Jesus shed His blood at the cross, not in the tome when He was buried. So the blood is applied when we go to the cross in repentance, not in baptism. .

Your final conclusion is incorrect. Baptism isn't just baptism into Christ's burial, but into His DEATH (Romans 6:3-4). Therefore, we enter His death and His death (blood) is applied to us in baptism.
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  #3  
Old 04-16-2019, 06:45 PM
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RonMurray RonMurray is offline
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Re: Inside The New Birth

I thought about it for a long time and prayed about it and searched all the scriptures in the epistles relating to it. I was already aware of that verse and understand what you mean. But besides the words we have in the Bible on it, we also have pictures to show us.

In Exodus, the people of God applied the blood to their house on the top and sides of their door poat in the pattern of the cross, signifying the blood of the cross. Then after that, they were led through the Red Sea, which signifies baptism, where the Egyptians were swept away by the waters of the Red Sea, just like our sins are washed away in baptism.

So these are two separate events where blood and water are applied. The blood was applied before they went through the Red Sea.

The blood, water, and Spirit are three witnesses, and each one has it's own place. If not, then repentance wouldn't have any witness, and wouldn't have any effect or benefit, including forgiveness, because God is not going to forgive sin and just leave it uncovered.

Here's a key scripture in the epistles in words "Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered". Romans 4:7.

So our sins can be covered and not be washed away. So these are two separate events. The blood being applied in repentance, where our sins are covered. And water applied in baptism, where blood and water bear witness with each other as two witnesses (the minimum by law), and then our sins are washed away.

.

Last edited by RonMurray; 04-16-2019 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 04-16-2019, 09:00 PM
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Re: Inside The New Birth

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonMurray View Post
I thought about it for a long time and prayed about it and searched all the scriptures in the epistles relating to it. I was already aware of that verse and understand what you mean. But besides the words we have in the Bible on it, we also have pictures to show us.

In Exodus, the people of God applied the blood to their house on the top and sides of their door poat in the pattern of the cross, signifying the blood of the cross. Then after that, they were led through the Red Sea, which signifies baptism, where the Egyptians were swept away by the waters of the Red Sea, just like our sins are washed away in baptism.

So these are two separate events where blood and water are applied. The blood was applied before they went through the Red Sea.

The blood, water, and Spirit are three witnesses, and each one has it's own place. If not, then repentance wouldn't have any witness, and wouldn't have any effect or benefit, including forgiveness, because God is not going to forgive sin and just leave it uncovered.

Here's a key scripture in the epistles in words "Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered". Romans 4:7.

So our sins can be covered and not be washed away. So these are two separate events. The blood being applied in repentance, where our sins are covered. And water applied in baptism, where blood and water bear witness with each other as two witnesses (the minimum by law), and then our sins are washed away.

.
We enter His death through baptism. The "blood" means His death. So His blood is applied in baptism, which is for the remission of sins.

It also says that in baptism we are raised in newness of life, so death, burial, AND resurrection are accomplished in baptism.

The blood applied to the doors did not provide a covering for sin (atonement), instead it provided a separation from Egypt so they could be called through the Red Sea to the mountain of God to enter Covenant. Christ's death provided respite from judgment and wrath for the elect so they can be called through baptism to the Pentecostal sealing of the Covenant, where God writes His laws in the hearts and minds of His people.
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Old 04-16-2019, 09:01 PM
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Re: Inside The New Birth

I'll post more later.
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Old 04-16-2019, 09:57 PM
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Re: Inside The New Birth

lot of confusion stems from holding on to 19th century evangelistic patterns and methodologies. During that time, "repentance" was understood to mean a person's "decision for Christ", in which they prayed for forgiveness and for God to save them. This was the "first trip to the altar."

Many who held that view joined together with others who held a more consistently Biblical and apostolic view. This joining of two different groups was called "The UNITED Pentecostal Church", and a compromise was reached between the two groups. This compromise produced the unique belief held by some in the UPC that a person is forgiven and justified in repentance, but their sins are remitted or washed away in baptism. Repentance of course being viewed as a crisis experience involving confessing and forsaking sin and praying for pardon and salvation.

Biblically, repentance is not a "trip to the altar" or a "decision for Christ."

Baptism was ordained by God via John's preaching. It was a baptism of repentance. The people repented by being baptized, confessing their sins, as a sign of returning to God in obedience.

Christ was baptized, but not needing to repent or confess sins, He imparted a newer, deeper dimension to baptism. Those who, from then on, properly responded to the call of God, would be baptized confessing Him (instead of confessing their sins only). Repentance was still part of baptism, but now that repentance was directed towards faith in Jesus as Messiah.

Thus, Peter, when he said "repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins" he wasn't giving two steps to salvation, but one. Genuine repentance includes baptism, and vice versa, they are inseparable, properly speaking. Peter later taught that baptism saves us because it is the answer of a good conscience towards God, it is the proper obedient response to the Gospel message, not a trip to an altar and a season of prayer and a "decision for Christ" apart from baptism.

When the Gentiles got saved in Acts 10, it was said of them that God had granted repentance unto life to them. Repentance is a large term and includes baptism, regeneration, and so forth. It means a turning about, from death to life, from sin to salvation.

It is only a modern construct that makes repentance a purely emotional, psychological, internal event separated from baptism and public profession of Jesus Christ.
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Old 04-16-2019, 10:10 PM
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Re: Inside The New Birth

Blood (cross, death of Christ), water (our identification with Him, His death, His resurrection, our confession of Him), and Spirit (the Holy Ghost, whereby the cross and our baptism are ratified as real and effectual, the sealing, the earnest or down payment on the eternal life to come) all testify to our having eternal life in Jesus. It is one witness in three parts or aspects, it is "the witness of God". Jesus' baptism, death, and exaltation correspond to what we experience in regeneration.

Regeneration isn't a three step process, it is one step by which we come to God, and then is confirmed by His gift of the Holy Ghost. Born of water and of the Spirit. We get baptized (includes repentance), He gives us the Spirit.

Notice, Christ came by water prior to by blood.
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Old 04-17-2019, 06:05 AM
consapente89 consapente89 is offline
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Re: Inside The New Birth

Excellent posts Esaias!
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Old 06-06-2019, 01:55 AM
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Re: Inside The New Birth

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Notice, Christ came by water prior to by blood.
To what does this refer to? John's Gospel begins with the incarnation of the Creator-Word as the Son. And then moves immediately to John the Baptist, baptism, Christ's baptism, being born again of water and Spirit, Christ's disciples being baptised, and His first miracle f turning water into wine.

So water is a primary theme in the beginning of John's Gospel, and is the prominent theme regarding the coming of Messiah.

So His coming by water refers to His advent by baptism. When He was baptised by John He began preaching and making disciples. It marked the start of His ministry, His official arrival or legal coming to Israel as the Christ. Jesus was announced as the Son of God to the world in a public manner at His baptism. It was there that the Spirit descended upon Him in a visible though symbolic form. This is not to say He received the Spirit at that point, but rather that He was officially anointed with or by the Spirit at that point.


He came by water, but not by water only, but also by blood. This refers to His death. His death, pierced in His hands and feet in fulfillment of prophecy, served as an official declaration that this Jesus is Messiah. At His baptism God told Jews this is the Son of God. At His death a gentile confessed "Surely this was the Son of God". The witness was both Jewish and Gentile now, a message to mankind that Jesus is Christ. His death as a propitiation for our sins was the coming of our Saviour to save us from our sins.

And it is the Spirit that bears witness. Upon His resurrection He was declared to be the "Son of God with power" according to the Spirit of holiness by His resurrection (Romans 1:4). God was manifest in the flesh through His incarnation and ministry, and justified in the Spirit by His resurrection, proving He was Who He claimed to be. And also, the Spirit which attended His ministry with mighty works of power bear witness of Him.

Here in the earth, the Spirit, and the water, and blood agree as bearers of testimony to the same truth, that Jesus is Christ. The Holy Ghost we receive, the baptism we undergo, the death we trust in, all testify to us and to the world that Jesus is the Messiah. THIS IS THE WITNESS OF GOD, and all who genuinely believe in the Son of God have that witness in their experience and in their life. They have the Holy Ghost, they have been baptised in the name of Jesus Christ, and they trust in the blood He shed for them.
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Old 06-06-2019, 09:29 AM
TakingDominion TakingDominion is offline
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Re: Inside The New Birth

Best study on baptism and repentance I have ever read. This is excellent content. Thank you
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