Oneness And Pre Incarnate Logos

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The problem I see with a lot of eschatology, and doctrine/theology in general, is much of the presentation has no real practical benefit.

Futurism, the way it is usually presented, seems to just motivate people to essentially give up on raising a family and doing much of anything positive for the future of their community. Plus, it numbs people to be constantly told doom is right around the corner. Most futurists don't actually live like they really expect the tribulation to start any moment. They still go to work, shop, pay bills, etc. You'd think the way most of them talk they'd be out establishing survivalist caches in the Ozarks and living off grid or high tailing it the Caribbean or something. Instead they get immune to the doom porn and then nothing is capable of shocking them into actually doing something when it counts. Just like the secular doomer gloomers predicting the end of the world and "The Big Economic Crash That Will Bring In Mad Max Road Warrior Anarchy"™. They predict it every year but it's become such a regular staple of their lives they don't even believe it themselves anymore. So it seems, anyway.

Originally Posted by Esaias

And yes, I DID know some families back in the 90s, who were working together to build a retreat in the Arkansas mountains. They planned on hiding out for the seven years of the tribulation. No idea what happened to those folks. Might still be up in Arkansas for all I know.

"The Big Economic Crash That Will Bring In Mad Max Road Warrior Anarchy"™. Yes, to some they become desensitized, some look forward to it with bated breath, and actually become disappointed when the nuclear holocaust doesn't come.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The problem I see with a lot of eschatology, and doctrine/theology in general, is much of the presentation has no real practical benefit.

Futurism, the way it is usually presented, seems to just motivate people to essentially give up on raising a family and doing much of anything positive for the future of their community. Plus, it numbs people to be constantly told doom is right around the corner. Most futurists don't actually live like they really expect the tribulation to start any moment. They still go to work, shop, pay bills, etc. You'd think the way most of them talk they'd be out establishing survivalist caches in the Ozarks and living off grid or high tailing it the Caribbean or something. Instead they get immune to the doom porn and then nothing is capable of shocking them into actually doing something when it counts. Just like the secular doomer gloomers predicting the end of the world and "The Big Economic Crash That Will Bring In Mad Max Road Warrior Anarchy"™. They predict it every year but it's become such a regular staple of their lives they don't even believe it themselves anymore. So it seems, anyway.

Probably over 90% are pre trib.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Chosen, thanks for mentioning the gates being shut on Sabbath. For some reason, that never occurred to me even though I am very familiar with the OT precedent from Nehemiah/Ezra.

That's not original with me EB said that one time on this thread when I posted Elder Marvin Treece "Road On the Rooftop". But it brought those passages to life to me and I knew it was right.

On that thread we all went round the same mulberry Bush with MTD. Kind of like if it's not turning the thread to focus on beards, it gets turned to talking about Post Trib, and if not that, he starts talking about God creating a image to create Him a throne. And then repeat..

[1ofthechosen]

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Good question. You will have to ask your pre trib and preterists friends why they are.

And what about Apostolics who attend Churches that are blind and deceived in other areas of doctrine? Why do they follow the Trins in immortal soul? Pagan holidays? Not to mention the second coming?

Apparently that hit a soft spot. Your right everyone of those are categories created by Trinitarian scholars, but so is Post Trib...

I could do without the pagan holidays, but this immortal soul you speak of just like your Eschatology you can't prove that one way or the other. So guess what, it's irrelevant.

[1ofthechosen]

MTD something came to me at work today.

Since Matthew 24:15-21 says "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand [16] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: [17] Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: [18] Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. [19] And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! [20] But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: [21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

Ok if we know that Luke 21:20-24 A "when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed j with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. k [21] Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. [22] For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. [23] But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. [24] And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations."

Ok I say and I believe you can see this gives a Sabbath warning, which means they lock the gate. But that hasn't been for over close to 1900 years, and when was the last time that was possible? That's right before 70 A.D.

Ok how if that be true Mike there is a huge problem with your belief in this being a future event. Why? Because Luke 21:4 B "Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." Because what this is saying until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled it will always be like this. How do you reconcile that? Don't divert from this question here, I need to know.

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

MTD something came to me at work today.

Since Matthew 24:15-21 says "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand [16] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: [17] Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: [18] Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. [19] And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! [20] But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: [21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

Ok if we know that Luke 21:20-24 A "when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed j with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. k [21] Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. [22] For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. [23] But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. [24] And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations."

Ok I say and I believe you can see this gives a Sabbath warning, which means they lock the gate. But that hasn't been for over close to 1900 years, and when was the last time that was possible? That's right before 70 A.D.

Ok how if that be true Mike there is a huge problem with your belief in this being a future event. Why? Because Luke 21:4 B "Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." Because what this is saying until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled it will always be like this. How do you reconcile that? Don't divert from this question here, I need to know.

May need to define what it means "times of the gentiles be fulfilled" If it means the end of gentiles that will believe. then there is a problem with the 70 AD theory because gentiles still believe and Jerusalem is not trodden down of the gentiles, unless of course you believe the "Jews" that inhabit Israel are not Jews but impostor Gentiles. If thats the case...gentiles still are coming into the faith and the event spoken of is a past event and continues. If the Jews are the Jews in Israel then there will be another war and the events spoken of in Luke 21 are future events as long as gentiles are being saved (that is if thats what the time of the gentiles being fulfilled means).
IMO

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

May need to define what it means "times of the gentiles be fulfilled" If it means the end of gentiles that will believe. then there is a problem with the 70 AD theory because gentiles still believe and Jerusalem is not trodden down of the gentiles, unless of course you believe the "Jews" that inhabit Israel are not Jews but impostor Gentiles. If thats the case...gentiles still are coming into the faith and the event spoken of is a past event and continues. If the Jews are the Jews in Israel then there will be another war and the events spoken of in Luke 21 are future events as long as gentiles are being saved (that is if thats what the time of the gentiles being fulfilled means).
IMO

Bro the Romans Trod it underfoot, and the Muslims built a dome of the Rock there on the temple mount (which I believe to be the Abomination of Desolation), that is not going anywhere until the full number of Gentiles are fulfilled as far as will be saved.
According to what Paul is speaking of in Romans Chapter 9-11.

There are Palestinians which are Gentiles in that part of the city and I believe the scripture is saying they will be.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Where does it say there is a time when 100% of the Gentile population are void of believers?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Bro the Romans Trod it underfoot, and the Muslims built a dome of the Rock there on the temple mount (which I believe to be the Abomination of Desolation), that is not going anywhere until the full number of Gentiles are fulfilled as far as will be saved.

There are Palestinians which are Gentiles in that part of the city and I believe the scripture is saying they will be.

The Dome of the Rock and the Al-Aqsa Mosque was built when?

The Roman legions desecrated the temple mount completely. So much so, that you couldn't find the exact spot of the Holy place if you had a flashlight and a laser beam.

So, we have two abominations, one making desolate way before the second one?

Hey? What's the name of this thread?