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07-23-2008, 07:41 PM
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Question
What if, while Jesus was about to be crucified...... the Roman Soldier who pierced his side giving him the final blow of death... decided to use his free will and SCREAM out.. "I CAN"t DO THIS, I WON'T DO THIS"
Does our salvation depend on Predestination or Free will?
Not wanting a fight just honest to goodness discussion of the issue
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07-23-2008, 07:53 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: AZ
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Re: Question
There is so much to be said on this issue!
As Doc Brown once shouted out, "Marty! The future isn't set. It is whatever you make it out to be!", so goes our free will.
Of course, in another manner of speaking, the future IS set because God knows what we will be doing tomorrow and the next day, and the moment we die and of what cause.
In our fixed spot in our space-time continuum, I believe we can have both: Total free will and yet still be predestined to make certain choices and have certain things happen to us, which can only be known by someone looking from far FAR above our dimension.
There is so much more to be said on this. For instance in our own universe, when looking at matter at the quantum level we see particles that behave in a certain way based on our mere observation of them. Some see this as evidence of the existence of a multiverse where every possible outcome has already been calculated and happened.
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07-23-2008, 07:54 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,774
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Re: Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn
What if, while Jesus was about to be crucified...... the Roman Soldier who pierced his side giving him the final blow of death... decided to use his free will and SCREAM out.. "I CAN"t DO THIS, I WON'T DO THIS"
Does our salvation depend on Predestination or Free will?
Not wanting a fight just honest to goodness discussion of the issue
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He DID use his free will. It's not predestination but foreknowledge of what he was gonna do with his free will
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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07-23-2008, 07:55 PM
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delete account
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 8,086
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Re: Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn
What if, while Jesus was about to be crucified...... the Roman Soldier who pierced his side giving him the final blow of death... decided to use his free will and SCREAM out.. "I CAN"t DO THIS, I WON'T DO THIS"
Does our salvation depend on Predestination or Free will?
Not wanting a fight just honest to goodness discussion of the issue
|
I believe that God in His foreknowledge knows the path we will take...but we are not individually predestined, but as a corporate body, the church, the bride of Christ...now that is pre-destined!
Just my thoughts. If he predestined us then we really have no choice do we?
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07-23-2008, 07:55 PM
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Re: Question
Randy, I enjoyed your thoughts on this matter.. interesting about the multiverse....
I for one take great solace and great peace in the fact that I have no enemy that God doesn't allow me to have.. thus freeing me from hate for my enemies.... I have no trial he did not foreordain for me.... He either orders the step of the righteous or he does not
Who can take solace in the fact that this universe is being run by Mans free will...
If the SOLDIER had a free will... he could have stopped salvations plan?
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07-23-2008, 07:56 PM
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Tired of it.
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,645
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Re: Question
Someone else would have stepped in.
__________________
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it. — André Gide
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds... - Ralph Waldo Emerson
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07-23-2008, 07:56 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: AZ
Posts: 16,746
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Re: Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhoni
I believe that God in His foreknowledge knows the path we will take...but we are not individually predestined, but as a corporate body, the church, the bride of Christ...now that is pre-destined!
Just my thoughts. If he predestined us then we really have no choice do we?
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We DO have a choice. He just knows what choice we will ultimately make.
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07-23-2008, 07:57 PM
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delete account
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 8,086
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Re: Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWayne
We DO have a choice. He just knows what choice we will ultimately make.
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Exactly what I said 
Great minds...and all that!
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07-23-2008, 07:58 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,774
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Re: Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhoni
Exactly what I said
Great minds...and all that! |
that or you're just a dummy with ESP 
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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07-23-2008, 07:58 PM
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Re: Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn
Randy, I enjoyed your thoughts on this matter.. interesting about the multiverse....
I for one take great solace and great peace in the fact that I have no enemy that God doesn't allow me to have.. thus freeing me from hate for my enemies.... I have no trial he did not foreordain for me.... He either orders the step of the righteous or he does not
Who can take solace in the fact that this universe is being run by Mans free will...
If the SOLDIER had a free will... he could have stopped salvations plan?
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I have been torn for years now on predestination proper or predestination with foreknowledge.... always leaning to predestination with foreknowledge... but I will admit I struggle with it... both arguments are persuasive
I tell you the story about the potter and the clay.... are very persuasive for predestination proper
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