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Old 03-13-2018, 09:31 AM
consapente89 consapente89 is offline
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Apostolic Women & Vocal Gifts

This question is mainly only directed at those who DO NOT believe in women preachers (which is also my persuasion). What are your thoughts on women being used in the vocal gifts, such as interpretation & prophesy? What scriptures support your position and what is the prominent thought & practice along these lines in your particular circle of fellowship?

Thanks in advance.
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  #2  
Old 03-13-2018, 10:01 AM
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Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Apostolic Women & Vocal Gifts

Quote:
Originally Posted by consapente89 View Post
This question is mainly only directed at those who DO NOT believe in women preachers (which is also my persuasion). What are your thoughts on women being used in the vocal gifts, such as interpretation & prophesy? What scriptures support your position and what is the prominent thought & practice along these lines in your particular circle of fellowship?

Thanks in advance.
As long as a woman is under the authority of the elders, and submitted to her husband, having a strong Christian testimony of modesty and humility, I believe she should have the liberty to use her gifts.
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Old 03-13-2018, 11:41 AM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Apostolic Women & Vocal Gifts

Quote:
Originally Posted by consapente89 View Post
This question is mainly only directed at those who DO NOT believe in women preachers (which is also my persuasion). What are your thoughts on women being used in the vocal gifts, such as interpretation & prophesy? What scriptures support your position and what is the prominent thought & practice along these lines in your particular circle of fellowship?

Thanks in advance.
The prohibition against "women preachers" is a prohibition against women taking authority over the congregation (particularly the men). Thus, they are not to teach the entire congregation or the men in the congregation. They can certainly teach younger women (and are exhorted to). They can pray and prophesy (1 Cor 11) which seems to be a catch-all term for vocal worship including being used in the gifts - including prophecy. But their actions must be done in such a way as to avoid controlling the assembly or the meeting.

All inspired utterances are to be judged. This is a function of the eldership (bishop = overseer, one who has oversight). Whether a man or woman speaks a "word in the Spirit" it is to be weighed and judged as to Scriptural correctness and applicability to the assembly. Women are not to be in the position of such judging, nor are they to be in the position of giving out doctrinal instruction to the general assembly. Nor are they to be "asking any questions" in the assembly, which has to do with investigating and weighing the merits and application of any inspired utterance, teaching, or the Scripture itself. They are to ask their husband at home.

The reason is, this type of questoning was a primary method of teaching (see Jesus' method of dialoguing, answering questions, etc). By raising a question, the questioner is now directing the assembly's focus in a certain area, and thus has in some measure assumed control of the meeting. Women are not to do this in the assembly where men are present.

Also, any sister engaged in worship (prayer or prophesying) with her head uncovered is shameful and unapostolic, and ought have her hair cut or shaved off. But if that would be an embarrassment then she needs to be covered.

Scripture references:

1 Cor 11:1-16
1 Cor 14:26-40
1 Tim 2:11-15
Titus 2:3-5
1 Peter 3:1-6
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Last edited by Esaias; 03-13-2018 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 03-13-2018, 01:00 PM
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Re: Apostolic Women & Vocal Gifts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
The prohibition against "women preachers" is a prohibition against women taking authority over the congregation (particularly the men). Thus, they are not to teach the entire congregation or the men in the congregation. They can certainly teach younger women (and are exhorted to). They can pray and prophesy (1 Cor 11) which seems to be a catch-all term for vocal worship including being used in the gifts - including prophecy. But their actions must be done in such a way as to avoid controlling the assembly or the meeting.

All inspired utterances are to be judged. This is a function of the eldership (bishop = overseer, one who has oversight). Whether a man or woman speaks a "word in the Spirit" it is to be weighed and judged as to Scriptural correctness and applicability to the assembly. Women are not to be in the position of such judging, nor are they to be in the position of giving out doctrinal instruction to the general assembly. Nor are they to be "asking any questions" in the assembly, which has to do with investigating and weighing the merits and application of any inspired utterance, teaching, or the Scripture itself. They are to ask their husband at home.

The reason is, this type of questoning was a primary method of teaching (see Jesus' method of dialoguing, answering questions, etc). By raising a question, the questioner is now directing the assembly's focus in a certain area, and thus has in some measure assumed control of the meeting. Women are not to do this in the assembly where men are present.

Also, any sister engaged in worship (prayer or prophesying) with her head uncovered is shameful and unapostolic, and ought have her hair cut or shaved off. But if that would be an embarrassment then she needs to be covered.

Scripture references:

1 Cor 11:1-16
1 Cor 14:26-40
1 Tim 2:11-15
Titus 2:3-5
1 Peter 3:1-6
All good stuff.

In the church I attended, if a woman of good report had a message or lesson to bring, she could do so but only under the authority of the pastor. He was like an "umbrella", ensuring that she was always under male authority. And we were told that to reject her or to become divisive over her being permitted to speak (which happened in one case) was not a rejection of her, but of the pastor. I was kind of "iffy" about that, but you know how it is, you roll with it as to not be "divisive".

We were told that a woman wasn't to teach or usurp authority of males. However, they taught us that this didn't mean that she wasn't permitted to teach or have authority periodically (under the pastor's authority). We were told that it meant that she wasn't to be in a permanent position to teach and have authority over men, such as holding an ordained position.

So, in our congregation women were active in ministry, but always under the authority of the pastor and the minsters of the church. But they were not to hold ordained or fixed positions outside of the choir, women's groups, or Sunday school.

But today, the house church we attend is more of a conversational participative dialogue and the women freely participate and share their thoughts, studies, etc. But women aren't recognized as elders, nor do they lead the meetings.

We see the head covering issue in Scripture as being related to submission and modesty among women in the church (head coverings being the specific issue in Corinth), not a rule requiring head coverings on women. But I know godly men of like precious faith who differ.

Last edited by Aquila; 03-13-2018 at 01:02 PM.
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  #5  
Old 03-13-2018, 02:55 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Apostolic Women & Vocal Gifts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
The prohibition against "women preachers" is a prohibition against women taking authority over the congregation (particularly the men). Thus, they are not to teach the entire congregation or the men in the congregation. They can certainly teach younger women (and are exhorted to). They can pray and prophesy (1 Cor 11) which seems to be a catch-all term for vocal worship including being used in the gifts - including prophecy. But their actions must be done in such a way as to avoid controlling the assembly or the meeting.

All inspired utterances are to be judged. This is a function of the eldership (bishop = overseer, one who has oversight). Whether a man or woman speaks a "word in the Spirit" it is to be weighed and judged as to Scriptural correctness and applicability to the assembly. Women are not to be in the position of such judging, nor are they to be in the position of giving out doctrinal instruction to the general assembly. Nor are they to be "asking any questions" in the assembly, which has to do with investigating and weighing the merits and application of any inspired utterance, teaching, or the Scripture itself. They are to ask their husband at home.

The reason is, this type of questoning was a primary method of teaching (see Jesus' method of dialoguing, answering questions, etc). By raising a question, the questioner is now directing the assembly's focus in a certain area, and thus has in some measure assumed control of the meeting. Women are not to do this in the assembly where men are present.

Also, any sister engaged in worship (prayer or prophesying) with her head uncovered is shameful and unapostolic, and ought have her hair cut or shaved off. But if that would be an embarrassment then she needs to be covered.

Scripture references:

1 Cor 11:1-16
1 Cor 14:26-40
1 Tim 2:11-15
Titus 2:3-5
1 Peter 3:1-6
Good teaching
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  #6  
Old 03-14-2018, 04:42 PM
consapente89 consapente89 is offline
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Re: Apostolic Women & Vocal Gifts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
The prohibition against "women preachers" is a prohibition against women taking authority over the congregation (particularly the men). Thus, they are not to teach the entire congregation or the men in the congregation. They can certainly teach younger women (and are exhorted to). They can pray and prophesy (1 Cor 11) which seems to be a catch-all term for vocal worship including being used in the gifts - including prophecy. But their actions must be done in such a way as to avoid controlling the assembly or the meeting.

All inspired utterances are to be judged. This is a function of the eldership (bishop = overseer, one who has oversight). Whether a man or woman speaks a "word in the Spirit" it is to be weighed and judged as to Scriptural correctness and applicability to the assembly. Women are not to be in the position of such judging, nor are they to be in the position of giving out doctrinal instruction to the general assembly. Nor are they to be "asking any questions" in the assembly, which has to do with investigating and weighing the merits and application of any inspired utterance, teaching, or the Scripture itself. They are to ask their husband at home.

The reason is, this type of questoning was a primary method of teaching (see Jesus' method of dialoguing, answering questions, etc). By raising a question, the questioner is now directing the assembly's focus in a certain area, and thus has in some measure assumed control of the meeting. Women are not to do this in the assembly where men are present.

Also, any sister engaged in worship (prayer or prophesying) with her head uncovered is shameful and unapostolic, and ought have her hair cut or shaved off. But if that would be an embarrassment then she needs to be covered.

Scripture references:

1 Cor 11:1-16
1 Cor 14:26-40
1 Tim 2:11-15
Titus 2:3-5
1 Peter 3:1-6

This is good. Thank you!
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  #7  
Old 03-14-2018, 08:22 PM
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good samaritan good samaritan is offline
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Re: Apostolic Women & Vocal Gifts

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2 Samuel 20:16 Then cried a wise woman out of the city, Hear, hear; say, I pray you, unto Joab, Come near hither, that I may speak with thee. 17 And when he was come near unto her, the woman said, Art thou Joab? And he answered, I am he. Then she said unto him, Hear the words of thine handmaid. And he answered, I do hear. 18 Then she spake, saying, They were wont to speak in old time, saying, They shall surely ask counsel at Abel:and so they ended the matter. 19 I am one of them that are peaceable and faithful in Israel:thou seekest to destroy a city and a mother in Israel:why wilt thou swallow up the inheritance of the Lord? 20 And Joab answered and said, Far be it, far be it from me, that I should swallow up or destroy. 21 The matter is not so:but a man of mount Ephraim, Sheba the son of Bichri by name, hath lifted up his hand against the king, even against David:deliver him only, and I will depart from the city. And the woman said unto Joab, Behold, his head shall be thrown to thee over the wall. 22 Then the woman went unto all the people in her wisdom. And they cut off the head of Sheba the son of Bichri, and cast it out to Joab. And he blew a trumpet, and they retired from the city, every man to his tent. And Joab returned to Jerusalem unto the king.
What are some opinions about this lady? If she hadn't spoken out, Abel of Bethmaachah would have been destroyed.

Last edited by good samaritan; 03-14-2018 at 08:48 PM.
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Old 03-14-2018, 09:22 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Apostolic Women & Vocal Gifts

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Originally Posted by good samaritan View Post
What are some opinions about this lady? If she hadn't spoken out, Abel of Bethmaachah would have been destroyed.
She was like the woman who bugged the unjust judge in Jesus' parable. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
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Old 03-14-2018, 10:14 PM
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Re: Apostolic Women & Vocal Gifts

She seems like a wise woman who both counseled and represented a city of northern Israel. I think she was more than just a nuissance, for she is noted in scripture as a wise woman.
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Old 03-14-2018, 10:36 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Apostolic Women & Vocal Gifts

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She seems like a wise woman who both counseled and represented a city of northern Israel. I think she was more than just a nuissance, for she is noted in scripture as a wise woman.
It doesn't mean she would be eligible for leadership over married men.

The Bible is acid against any such thing.

Isaiah 3:12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and WOMEN RULE OVER THEM. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

Just as immaturity isn't a good thing in the Bible. Neither is female leadership.
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