Does Everyone Live Forever?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by TulsaDavid

Reaping and sowing. Scripture goes to lengths to share that principle. Jesus died to give us a way out of that and into eternal life. Better we never were born than to go into eternal destruction.

That's far from proving what you're trying to propose. Sin done in Seventy years or so deserves unending punishment? Doesn't jive. I've not bothered to settle that issue because the Bible doesn't.

[TulsaDavid]

Wouldn't "doesn't jive" be based on temporal reasoning? Seems Scripture settled it when it defined the lake of fire as the second death, not annihilation and nothingness.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by TulsaDavid

That assumes "blackness of darkness" means annihilation and nothingness. Really have to stretch on that.

Not really. Job was a perfect man. This is how he saw death.

Job 17:13

If I wait, the grave is mine house: I have made my bed in the darkness.

Job 18:5-6

5Yea, the light of the wicked shall be put out, and the spark of his fire shall not shine.

6The light shall be dark in his tabernacle, and his candle shall be put out with him.

Job 18:16-18

16His roots shall be dried up beneath, and above shall his branch be cut off.

17His remembrance shall perish from the earth, and he shall have no name in the street.

18He shall be driven from light into darkness, and chased out of the world.

Darkness is a spiritual meatphor for death.

The apostles knew this.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by TulsaDavid

Wouldn't "doesn't jive" be based on temporal reasoning? Seems Scripture settled it when it defined the lake of fire as the second death, not annihilation and nothingness.

So do the wicked live forever?

[TulsaDavid]

Darkness may be a metaphor for death, but it is also a metaphor for punishment, condition and mindset. The stretch is assuming any of this means eternal nothingness. Of course, the wicked live forever, just like the righteous. The sense of sowing/reaping, Jesus' price paid and eternal redemption is obscured, if it is not redemption from eternal punishment and into eternal reward and fellowship.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by TulsaDavid

Darkness may be a metaphor for death, but it is also a metaphor for punishment, condition and mindset. The stretch is assuming any of this means eternal nothingness. Of course, the wicked live forever, just like the righteous. The sense of sowing/reaping, Jesus' price paid and eternal redemption is obscured, if it is not redemption from eternal punishment and into eternal reward and fellowship.

If the wicked live forever why this?

Gen. 3:22

22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

And this?

John 6:

51I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

I thought we had to eat the bread of Jesus to live forever?

Did Jesus death pay the ransom for our sins? If the penalty for our sin was eternity in the lake of fire why did Jesus rise up in 3 days?

Would he not have to still be suffering in the lake of fire?

So in your view how does Jesus suffering in hell for 3 days pay the price for us? But wait! Did Jesus even suffer in Hell at all?

Or did he DIE for our sins?

[TulsaDavid]

Those questions make no sense nor connect to anything about annihilation or nothingness. Nice scriptures. "But wait." No relevant point.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by TulsaDavid

Wouldn't "doesn't jive" be based on temporal reasoning? Seems Scripture settled it when it defined the lake of fire as the second death, not annihilation and nothingness.

No. Reasoning , period. It did not say anything about duration in the lake of fire. Annihilation there? Possible.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by TulsaDavid

Those questions make no sense nor connect to anything about annihilation or nothingness. Nice scriptures. "But wait." No relevant point.

How Jesus paid the price for OUR SINS is not relevant?

Two possibilities.

1. He died and was in the heart of the earth (grave) for 3 days. The wages of sin is death. He died.

2. Only his body died, he himself went for 3 days in Paradise.

If this doctrine be true he died a physical death but his person never died at all just went to the bliss of Paradise. No spiritual suffering at all.

If number one is true my doctrine is true.

If number two is true the penalty for our sins is our body dies and we go to Paradise.

So HOW did Jesus pay for OUR.....sins?

Seems to me to be absolutely relevant.

[TulsaDavid]

MFBlume, in terms of principle, annihilation is the stretch of assumption if one is using silence about duration. Eternal torment is the far stronger sense in "this is the second death". Eternal reward is for good or bad demonstrates ultimate equity. Wordplay and silence simply cannot establish an exception such as annihilation.

Michael The Disciple, your citations are simply not relevant to the assumption about annihilation.