Can we mix with trinitarians now?

[ulsterman]

Hi everyone. First of all, I'm from the Church of God in Northern Ireland. We are Oneness Pentecostal. Gordon Magee, author of 'Is Jesus in the Godhead or is the Godhead in Jesus', came from our churches. Mervyn Miller, former foreign missions director of the UPCI, was originally from the Church of God in Northern Ireland.

I came across 2 videos on YouTube tonight which puzzled me. Both were Mickey Mangun singing with trinitarians. When I was much younger, I don't think that would have happened. Other UPCI singers can be found on YouTube singing away at primarily trinitarian events.

Why is this happening?

Do those who openly fellowship with trinitarians believe trinitarians who have not been baptised in Jesus' Name are now saved?

Are they trying to convert the trinitarians and bring them into Oneness Pentecostal belief?

Will this fellowship with trinitarians weaken or strengthen the Oneness Pentecostal movement in the longer term?

I genuinely am interested in the motivation behind this.

[diakonos]

They’re not trying to save them. It’s all about $$$

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by ulsterman

Hi everyone. First of all, I'm from the Church of God in Northern Ireland. We are Oneness Pentecostal. Gordon Magee, author of 'Is Jesus in the Godhead or is the Godhead in Jesus', came from our churches. Mervyn Miller, former foreign missions director of the UPCI, was originally from the Church of God in Northern Ireland.

I came across 2 videos on YouTube tonight which puzzled me. Both were Mickey Mangun singing with trinitarians. When I was much younger, I don't think that would have happened. Other UPCI singers can be found on YouTube singing away at primarily trinitarian events.

Why is this happening?

Do those who openly fellowship with trinitarians believe trinitarians who have not been baptised in Jesus' Name are now saved?

Are they trying to convert the trinitarians and bring them into Oneness Pentecostal belief?

Will this fellowship with trinitarians weaken or strengthen the Oneness Pentecostal movement in the longer term?

I genuinely am interested in the motivation behind this.

Greetings, Ulsterman! My family hails from Sligo and Clare counties, so Dia duit! What is the situation up there like? I'm interested to know how receptive the people are to Truth, considering the centuries long sectarian traditions seem very strong, both catholic and Orange.

[ulsterman]

Greetings Esaias. In general, the truth is not well established anywhere in Europe. In the Republic of Ireland, there a few new UPC works. That said, not many Irish people are getting saved. Most of the growth is fuelled by immigration. Mainly Africans moving to Ireland who were already in the Church.

You might be interested to know that the Church of God in Northern Ireland teaches Conditional Immortality.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by ulsterman

Greetings Esaias. In general, the truth is not well established anywhere in Europe. In the Republic of Ireland, there a few new UPC works. That said, not many Irish people are getting saved. Most of the growth is fuelled by immigration. Mainly Africans moving to Ireland who were already in the Church.

You might be interested to know that the Church of God in Northern Ireland teaches Conditional Immortality.

Ah, good to know!

I wonder why not many Irish people are getting saved. It is, after all, their destiny.

[ulsterman]

Not just Irish people who aren't getting saved. Generous calculations are that there are around 26 million Oneness Pentecostals in the world......and we can't even agree who amongst that number is saved. That's 0.003% of the planet's current population.

There are 67 million Assemblies of God members. More in that one denomination than in all Oneness groups collectively.

But, back to my original question - why are prominent Oneness Pentecostals sharing platforms with trinitarians?

Are these trinitarians now saved and we can count them as brothers and sisters?

If they are, then why bother with holiness standards?

If they aren't, why are Oneness believers mixing?

I am not a UPC member but did attend its Bible School in England in the 80s. Back then, we even discussed whether or not we should sing songs written by trinitarians......now we sing with trinitarians in their events.

What is going on?

[Amanah]

Ulsterman, to make comparisons with others isn't wise. The Apostle's teaching in the word of God is the standard. Even in the days of the Apostle's believers were warned about false doctrine and false teachers.

[Sister Alvear]

Keep your eyes on Jesus....

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by ulsterman

Hi everyone. First of all, I'm from the Church of God in Northern Ireland. We are Oneness Pentecostal. Gordon Magee, author of 'Is Jesus in the Godhead or is the Godhead in Jesus', came from our churches. Mervyn Miller, former foreign missions director of the UPCI, was originally from the Church of God in Northern Ireland.

I came across 2 videos on YouTube tonight which puzzled me. Both were Mickey Mangun singing with trinitarians. When I was much younger, I don't think that would have happened. Other UPCI singers can be found on YouTube singing away at primarily trinitarian events.

Why is this happening?

It would have to be judged on a case by case basis. Each individual or church who fellowships Trinitarians would have to speak for themselves as to the "Why?".

Do those who openly fellowship with trinitarians believe trinitarians who have not been baptised in Jesus' Name are now saved?

Probably somewhere between yes and no, or undecided.

Are they trying to convert the trinitarians and bring them into Oneness Pentecostal belief?

That would be the most likely guess, in my estimation. But I think there is something a little more deeper than that. In my experience, there has been an undercurrent haunting, for lack of a better word, the Oneness movement from its inception: acceptance by the masses of "Christianity". The lack of legitimacy in the eyes of everyone else outside of Oneness has caused, again in my opinion, a need for some to desire to feel recognized and admitted to the ranks, so to speak, of regular Christians (i.e. mostly Protestant, Evangelical, Trinitarian, etc.).

Will this fellowship with trinitarians weaken or strengthen the Oneness Pentecostal movement in the longer term?

I suspect the more Oneness adherents fellowship with Trinitarians, the more Oneness adherents will lose their distinctives, first in outward standards of modesty, then in the Gospel and Acts 2:38, either with baptism or speaking with other tongues, and finally, with their views on the Godhead.

Just a guess of course but intermingling across cultures has always generated a mix of compromise and dilution, with the larger group tending to swallow up the former.

I genuinely am interested in the motivation behind this.

Perhaps you could write the Manguns and ask them their motivations? A sincere inquiry may receive a sincere response???

[Evang.Benincasa]

No, we can't mix with Trinitarians. Because they are totally uncool.