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[Esaias]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Someones death doesn't exactly confirm anything of Apostolic faith. Well aware of a buncha anecdotal stories but I refuse to believe that God takes time out of His busy schedule to conveniently smash some dude that the church may have not liked.

Tell that to Ananias and Sapphira, I guess.

Or Herod.

Or Onan. Or Er.

etc.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Someones death doesn't exactly confirm anything of Apostolic faith. Well aware of a buncha anecdotal stories but I refuse to believe that God takes time out of His busy schedule to conveniently smash some dude that the church may have not liked. I dont know what is meant by "against the Apostolic message" depending on where you go church that could mean anything from full on blasphemy to simply quietly disagreeing with what is being preached but in some circles only having the thought, if they knew you were having it, would be enough for them to write you off as ananthma.

Saul laid absolute waste to the church and He turned him into an Apostle...

Now THATS power!

I know of pastors drop dead preaching the gospel behind the pulpit.

Was that "judgement" or just their time?

Here’s one that hits close to home. When my youngest daughter was born. I received a phone call from a dear minister friend. Who informed me that God was going to take my daughter because of what I believe concerning eschatology.
I thanked him for the heads up. Then asked him if we could pray for her immediately. That was 21 years ago. My daughter is still alive. Praise Jesus.

Sadly it seems that some Pentecostals and Charismatics have God kill those who they don’t like. Left their congregations, offend their preacher, or believe in a different eschatology. I haven’t found that in other forms of Christianity. Not saying that they never claimed God murdered people on their behalf. I just haven’t heard of it.

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Tell that to Ananias and Sapphira, I guess.

Or Herod.

Or Onan. Or Er.

etc.

Are you saying that those few examples establishes a pattern that justifies folks being eager for such a thing happening?

Bro...you know with as many scumbags left breathin that Gods justice doesn't always work like that...but does anyone EVER get away in the end?

We are like bugs in a massive terrarium thinking that if we make enough laps around the glass that we can escape the one holding the jar...

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Are you saying that those few examples establishes a pattern that justifies folks being eager for such a thing happening?

Bro...you know with as many scumbags left breathin that Gods justice doesn't always work like that...but does anyone EVER get away in the end?

We are like bugs in a massive terrarium thinking that if we make enough laps around the glass that we can escape the one holding the jar...

You said, "...I refuse to believe that God takes time out of His busy schedule to conveniently smash some dude..."

The examples I cited are specific examples where God took time out of His busy schedule to conveniently smash some dude (and one woman as well).

So, what am I saying? Simply that God does indeed take time out of His busy schedule to conveniently smash some dude (and some woman as well).

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

You said, "...I refuse to believe that God takes time out of His busy schedule to conveniently smash some dude..."

The examples I cited are specific examples where God took time out of His busy schedule to conveniently smash some dude (and one woman as well).

So, what am I saying? Simply that God does indeed take time out of His busy schedule to conveniently smash some dude (and some woman as well).

I don't think Jediwill doesn't believe that God brought judgement on individuals as opening up the earth to swallow them alive, or killing a couple who lied to an Apostle. It's my opinion that he just doesn't see God taking time out of His busy schedule to smite an individual because the individual left the UPCI. Or the individual took issue with a despotic minister. It has been the idea of "some" Pentecostals to see those who have backslid, or just picked up and moved on, as open game for God's vengeance.

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I don't think Jediwill doesn't believe that God brought judgement on individuals as opening up the earth to swallow them alive, or killing a couple who lied to an Apostle. It's my opinion that he just doesn't see God taking time out of His busy schedule to smite an individual because the individual left the UPCI. Or the individual took issue with a despotic minister. It has been the idea of "some" Pentecostals to see those who have backslid, or just picked up and moved on, as open game for God's vengeance.

Bingo. Sorry I was unclear. Obviously there are instances where judgement was clear...but not to the point where its wielded as a control mechanism by man through fear like his finger is on the switch.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I don't think Jediwill doesn't believe that God brought judgement on individuals as opening up the earth to swallow them alive, or killing a couple who lied to an Apostle. It's my opinion that he just doesn't see God taking time out of His busy schedule to smite an individual because the individual left the UPCI. Or the individual took issue with a despotic minister. It has been the idea of "some" Pentecostals to see those who have backslid, or just picked up and moved on, as open game for God's vengeance.

Why would anyone believe that God's retributive justice has anything to do with leaving a denomination or taking issue with a despotic minister? Seems to me that by definition "God's judgment" is reserved for those who offend God, not those who offend man.

Oh, wait, there are those who think that they are, indeed, the "voice of God"? The vicegerent of God? The Vicar of Christ? As in, they sit in the temple of God as if they themselves were God? As in, to disobey them is to disobey God?

Honestly, being serious here, I find it sad that there are "Pentecostals" who are becoming the very thing they originally "came out" of.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Why would anyone believe that God's retributive justice has anything to do with leaving a denomination or taking issue with a despotic minister? Seems to me that by definition "God's judgment" is reserved for those who offend God, not those who offend man.

Oh, wait, there are those who think that they are, indeed, the "voice of God"? The vicegerent of God? The Vicar of Christ? As in, they sit in the temple of God as if they themselves were God? As in, to disobey them is to disobey God?

Honestly, being serious here, I find it sad that there are "Pentecostals" who are becoming the very thing they originally "came out" of.

I actually just told my son the same thing.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Why would anyone believe that God's retributive justice has anything to do with leaving a denomination or taking issue with a despotic minister? Seems to me that by definition "God's judgment" is reserved for those who offend God, not those who offend man.

Oh, wait, there are those who think that they are, indeed, the "voice of God"? The vicegerent of God? The Vicar of Christ? As in, they sit in the temple of God as if they themselves were God? As in, to disobey them is to disobey God?

Honestly, being serious here, I find it sad that there are "Pentecostals" who are becoming the very thing they originally "came out" of.

I have personal experiences from individuals who were consumed by the thought they were the "head" on the congregation. I understand leadership, but leadership in some individuals can bypass what little Holy Ghost they may of once had. They see themselves as the Apostle Peter, and everyone else in Ananias and Sapphira or Absalom. If you were for some reason to take you and family to a church exhibiting the traits I speak of, you would have to have everything you believed scanned by the head preacher. Meaning, you wouldn't be able to answer questions of saints without having them pass the minister in charge.

Imagine having an 18 year old pastor telling you about book, chapter, and verse on a subject? A subject they haven't even studied in length to the degree you have? I understand respect for an office, like a police officer is given respect for his office. But when the office is tested and they become a bad cop, they are dealt with. Same goes for the preacher, if he proves himself to be a bad tree, we are not to keep eating the fruit. Wait until the Lord guides you out of the situation. Yes, the Lord will lead you out, when you figure out the minister is a clear danger to you and your family's well being and peace of mind.

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Why would anyone believe that God's retributive justice has anything to do with leaving a denomination or taking issue with a despotic minister? Seems to me that by definition "God's judgment" is reserved for those who offend God, not those who offend man.

Oh, wait, there are those who think that they are, indeed, the "voice of God"? The vicegerent of God? The Vicar of Christ? As in, they sit in the temple of God as if they themselves were God? As in, to disobey them is to disobey God?

Honestly, being serious here, I find it sad that there are "Pentecostals" who are becoming the very thing they originally "came out" of.

Becoming? I was in one of those churches in the late 90’s.